Red Post Collection: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 23, Helmet Bro: Lulu Vs. Cupcake Brah, & More

Posted on at 4:37 PM by Aznbeat
Tonight's red post collection includes Meddler's quick gameplay thoughts for May 23rd including Jungle followup and a new cursor coming to the PBE for testing soon, MSI 2018 results, a new Helmet Bro episode, reminders, and more!
Continue reading for more information!


Table of Contents

Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 23 

Here's Meddler's quick gameplay thoughts for May 23rd, including thoughts on Jungle follow up as well as the new cursor coming to the PBE for testing soon:
"Hi folks, 
Usual Disclaimers
These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: 
Jungle Follow up 
We've been looking at the state of the jungle after 8.10 and have some follow up changes going into 8.11. Details of what and our thinking below, we’ll also look at things again once the 8.11 changes are out. 
  • One of our goals was to make Scuttle more of a focus for attention by giving it around the same amount of gold/XP as a regular camp (starts a bit lower, scales harder, same ballpark though). We think that the value per Scuttle is now in an appropriate place, but that the combination of that increased value with the current respawn timer results in Scuttle control influencing a bit too much of a jungler’s time.
  • We’re reducing Scuttle respawn rate as a result (2:30, instead of 2:15), then increasing Scuttle shrine duration to keep similar total shrine availability time (90s, was 75s)
Other camps 
  • Then putting a small amount of XP scaling into non buff camps (Wolves, Krugs, Gromp, Raptors) to account for lower Scuttle Xp availability 
Runic Echoes 
  • Our changes to Runic Echoes are part of our work to allow a wider variety of champions in a range of positions. Runic changes were intended to be around power neutral for existing AP junglers as a result, while making the jungle somewhat more doable for many AP champs who've struggled to jungle historically.
  • Changes ended up being somewhat power down however. Addressing that in a couple of ways with the most likely being build path (potentially Fiendish Codex instead of Lost Chapter to allow an earlier component spike) and raw combat power (70 AP instead of 60 AP)
  • We’re still discussing whether or not Runic Echoes should get Movement Speed back or not as a separate issue. We stripped it off because of how it’s most effective on a subset of AP champs (assassins and those who clear really fast), which fights against our goal of getting a wider range of AP champs into the jungle. Getting it back is very frequently requested by the users of the previous version of Runic Echoes though.
Balance on champs who mainly jungle (in response to both 8.10 changes and just general balance) 
  • Xin Zhao - lowering scaling damage (AD/level) and gank reliability (E slow %). Looking to keep early damage and dueling power intact.
  • Graves - less early AA damage, potentially another change.
  • Lee Sin - Got hit by the yellow trinket CD/duration change. Making it so his ability reactivations interact as you'd expect with CDR and giving him a bit more energy from his passive late game.
  • Kha'Zix - Changing R adaption back to granting additional duration and cast rather than invis on touching brush.
  • Elise - Increased base MS and human W damage.
  • Possibly a few more champs (e.g. might be small buffs to Kindred, Yi, Nocturne, Diana). 
Still Investigating 
  • At time of writing we're also looking at how jungler gold and XP over time in 8.10 compares to 8.9, with potentially some further additions to the coming patch in response.
  • Jungler XP early is down, which was intended, given one of our primary goals was to reduce jungler influence on lanes early game. Depending on the champ it's taking between 8 and 14 minutes to catch up to prior XP levels. XP later in the game is then up, with on average around +250xp at 20 mins and +525xp at 35 mins. Talking about whether it's taking too long to get back to parity and whether increased late game XP is or isn't the best place to have power added.
  • Jungler gold is down over the course of the game, with on average -100g by 20 mins and -200g by 35 mins. That decrease is gold is consistent with the other positions however, who’ve seen very similar drops. That’s due to the changes to the bounty system.
Graph of those changes below. Forgive the somewhat hard to follow nature of these, this is just a screenshot grabbed from our internal tools rather than something that’s been tidied up for wider consumption like some of the other graphs we show. 
Given that’s a bit of a mess of lines, here’s another pic with just a few champs (Amumu, Graves, Kha’Zix) on it:
New Cursor 
Has been testing pretty well. We’ll get it onto PBE in a couple of weeks or so to start gathering wider feedback. Since it’ll still be a work in progress some things may be rough or experimental still (e.g. we’ll probably still be trying different approaches for how the cursor reacts when you mouse over an enemy target)."

When asked about SejuaniMeddler commented:
You talked a while ago about buffing Sejuani. You still want to buff her? What would you buff then?
Should have buffs for Sej in 8.12. We were originally looking to get them into 8.11, need for 8.10 followup pushed them down the list though so they got moved back a patch."

On ZyraMeddler replied:
sorry again... BUT WHERE IS ZYRA CHANGE?
Should we wait for it in 8.12?
Probably something on PBE today. We were looking at making plants briefly untargetable on spawn so that they didn't get immediately one shot by melee Zyra had rooted. Got some feedback from Zyra players that that removed their ability to spawn plants to stop skillshots however. Still looking at other approaches there. In the meantime we're testing increasing her root duration slightly at all levels (1.0-2.0, from 0.75-1.75)."

When asked about what they would be focusing on next after Marksman/AD item changes, Meddler replied:
After the Marksmen changes come through and some time is given to tweak any outliers, where do you guys plan to focus some attention next? 
Like Divers? Enchanters? Vanguards? Wardens? Skirmishers?
We'll be looking at shielding and healing, in particular from enchanters, in the 8.12-8.14 range."

As for how the new cursor would act with 4K resolutions, Meddler replied:
about that new cursor,
will it finally not be tiny on a 4k resolution screen? or is that a seperate issue?
Yes, the changes will include 4k support. You'll be able to scale cursor size through the options menu."

On the Ryze and Azir tentative changes we saw testing in previous PBE cycles, Meddler noted:
Any progress (and info) on the Ryze rework? Is it even happening at this stage? I used to believe the deadline was 8.11
We're pulling both the Ryze and Azir changes. We're not confident enough they'll come together quickly enough/won't need a fair bit of followup. Putting time elsewhere instead as a result."

On Spear of Shojin and UrgotMeddler commented:
Hey Meddler! I've heard Spear of Shojin might become melee only, will Urgot get some buffs? He could use some given he was not touched with massive Frozen Mallet nerf. He always is on the short end of stick because of marksman abusers...
Urgot's getting some buffs regardless, maybe in 8.11, maybe 8.12. Currently testing increases to base AS, letting W be cast during other spell casts and allowing him to move while he's grinding someone to death with R. 
Spear wise, we'd like to keep it melee and ranged if possible to support users like Quinn and Urgot. That's assuming the activation radius is enough to avoid it being too strong on marksmen though. If that's not the case we will have to swap it to melee only."

On FizzMeddler replied:
Hello Meddler,
You talked about possible Fizz changes on his W after mid season. Is this a thing/is this still planned ?
Update: Hoping to look at it sometime in June. Not sure yet what that means in terms of what changes/when they'll ship, but can probably at least share an update mid-late June as a result."

When asked for thoughts on Zeke's Convergence, Meddler replied:
Thoughts on Zeke's for it does seem to be getting picked A LOT. Even junglers are taking it to buff the adc up.
After talking with some a couple of people:
  • We think Zeke's is a pretty strong choice at present, but still roughly competitive with other options rather than a dominant choice.
  • It is getting more jungle usage at present. We believe that it's more a case of junglers who use it well are already strong, than that it's dictacting which junglers are played in the first place.
  • Going to be be monitoring it, especially over the next couple of patches, no current plans for changes though."

As for how roles are handling the gold shutdown changes in Patch 8.10, Meddler noted:
How have the supports faired with shutdown gold going to the killer instead of the whole team?
Supports are down noticeably more gold than the other positions as you'd expect. Breakdown looks roughly like this at 35 minutes: 
Top -325
Mid -260
Jungle -250 (though with the largest variance depending on the champion in question)
Bot -250
Support -420"

Quick Hits

"So delicious. Animation by Nevercake:"

"Battle for the trophy in Clash, League’s new tournament mode for teams. Team up and crush enemies in single-elimination matches for glory and rewards. How far can you go?"


To round out this red post collection, here are a few reminders on current promotions or limited time events!
  • The Rainbow Fluft icon, celebrating IDAHOTB, is available to purchase for 1 BE through Patch 8.10! This enables a rainbow spawn animation during the patch, so make sure to grab it while you can!

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