Red post about Evelynn rework

Posted on at 8:15 AM by Moobeat
Here is a little gem I found on the forum that relates to the Evelynn rework that we've been hearing rumors about for a while. The post doesn't really clarify anything, but gives some insight into the process that the majority of forum goers wrongly claim as being oh so simple.

"Because I'm just a little frustrated:

Phase -1 (Before I was here): Some kind of remake. I don't really know the details of this.

Phase 0 (When I was here): Make Eve into high-end counter-jungler. Testing revealed that counter-jungling is incredibly toxic to game.

Phase 1 (Remake Two): Make Eve into sustained DPS while removing every single one of her frustration points (Stun from Stealth, Ultimate Heal, Burst from Stealth). Shut down due to AD Eve and the fact that players enjoyed frustrating their opponents with an "unknown" build.

Phase 2 (Slight Buffs): Take away some of the worst aspects of Evelynn's kit, the back-facing requirement, the % targeting aspect of the ultimate, etc.

Concerned that if Evelynn ever becomes good in the game, it will be massively frustrating for players.

Phase 3 (Jungle Evelynn): Evelynn is top-tier as a moderate speed counter-jungler. Massively frustrating for players.


Rework Trials 1 (Positional Based Reveal based on frontal views and champion placement): Latency and directional facing made this feel buggy.

Rework Trials 1 1/2 (Stealth is revealed for a short time but not broken upon taking damage. Zero fadeout timer. Different damage types reveal you for different amounts. (AoE is 1/3rd of direct damage)): This actually worked pretty well in solving one specific instance of stealth (Stealth as escape is too powerful atm.) All future trials incorporated this mechanism.

Rework Trials 2 (Paranoia based debuff, alerting you to nearby stealthers without actually revealing them. Think Twitch with Stark's): Frustrating because it was essentially a test to see whether the other person had a vision ward or not. If ward, then Stealth is countered and awful. If not, didn't really matter. People hugged more or ignored it.

Rework Trials 3 (Stealth leaves footsteps while moving): Encouraged Stealthers to camp positions. Stealthers felt silly (walking around with toilet paper attached to your feet) while the counterplay still wasn't there due to the camping problem.

Rework Trials 4 (Stealth requires 2-second mark channel before you can attack from stealth. Mark is visible to opponents): Didn't really work. Uncovered the fact that scouting + power disparity is the most frustrating part of stealth.

Rework Trials 5 (Removing Stun from her Kit): Still frustrating.

Rework Trials 6 (Dust of Appearance instead of Oracles): Better gameplay overall but leaves no counter to scouting.

Current Analysis: Stealth is frustrating due to the fact that MoBA's are essentially RTS games. Scouting for information and advantage is one of the most powerful abilities anyone can have. Any mechanic that grants scouting while also hiding equivalent information from the enemy with no counters is at its core, insane advantage.

Secondary Analysis: Stealth characters right now, aren't frustrating until they can 1 v 1 you. Once they reach the power level where they can 1 v 1 you, Stealth characters are essentially unstoppable unless the player involved is far lower in skill.

Tertiary Conclusion: Gameplay that forcibly adapts the reactions of enemy players into such a narrow avenue of responses of stealth creates higher skill disparity at the cost of people actually being unable to show their mastery of the game. Players cannot play the same way versus stealth and thus their skill levels are gimped. (They cannot play optimally to their skill level) The amount of valid reactions to stealth doesn't really offer a whole lot of counters.

Possible next experiment: Stealth does not actually make you invisible to enemies, only untargetable and hides your health status.

Upsides: This removes half of the scout problem equation (Being scouted without knowing you are being scouted), while still giving stealth characters a good way to engage (as they are essentially invulnerable while moving in.)

Downsides: You're not actually stealthed. You're just there and can't be shot directly. Flavor wise, this feels awful.

Additionally, feels buggy being able to see, but not being able to attack someone directly that you know is there. (Think Dark Templars)

Hope that helps. Let me know if you want me to explain anything specifically."
Posted by  Xypherous, Associate Technical Designer in late February. Original post and thread located here.


  1. I don't know what any of this means...

  2. You could only understand if you played Action RTS aka MOBA games.

    It's the new modern real time D&D lol

  3. This is really good information. I really enjoy playing eveeee.

  4. Now I got. Thanks for sharing that interesting info

  5. i never played that games but they seems interesting

  6. Played lots of RTS and I still don't get a thing :P

    Played mostly C&C rtses

  7. Never played eve, but your explanation seem that its a complex game

  8. this game is just amazing, i love its complexity

  9. its interesting thanks for sharing

  10. Stealth really is a stupid mechanic. They might as well just delete Twitch end Evelynn from the game. They aren't even fun to play.