Lunar Goddess Diana Discussion
|For reference, here is the LG Diana skin as it appears in the 12/14 PBE Update|
"Hey guys, thanks for setting up the poll. Additionally, thanks for the feedback.
I'd like to explain some of the context around this skin before I get into the nitty-gritty.
This Diana skin was influenced by Chang E, a Chinese moon goddess. That's what made me move towards an outfit which utilized more cloth/drapery elements than armor elements. We wanted to create something a little more graceful, a different fantasy. Drapery was an aspect in this, something which I liked to mess around with since her base is so armor heavy. Silk felt better in this case I thought. Also, some of what's on her is some more traditional elements and motifs, they're styled away from the language of the base.
On a technical note, there are a few discrepancies between the concept and the model. Some of these changes are due to tweaks to the model in order to make it read better in game, or simply might be drift away from the original concept. This sometimes happens. Other discrepancies however, are polish points mostly, things I think we might be able to address.
All that being said, I've looked at the prevailing feedback throughout the night and noticing some trends, correct me if I'm wrong, or let me know what you think about these assessments:
- There's some feeling that she might be a bit too "clothy", that something quintessential about Diana feeling like Diana is visually represented by relatively heavy armor. That might be a theme we need to more heavily integrate.
- The tan of her skin tone is bringing her away from the sorta creepy other-wordly aspect she has. She might be a but too humanized here. Also her face might need some polish. She's missing makeup which I designed into her face for this particular skin. The lack of that might be hurting it.
- The leggings, again, feeling too silken and possibly unnecessarily showing skin, they seem also to read as DV Diana's leggings to some people.
- The cloth in general is a bit cool, and might need to warm as it comes into highlight. The gold might be looking a bit too copper/yellow at the moment and might need to come from a more peach color up to a cooler highlight.
So, all that being said then, I'm going to experiment with some changes to the skin via paint-overs for our 3D modelers. At this point I have to warn that it's possible that nothing that I attempt may be used in the end for whatever reason. It may also be possible that we make changes that are less drastic, or more drastic. That's what PBE is for, to gain feedback and adjust if possible. Additionally, any changes I might make will most likely be along the lines of texture change rather than geometry change. This means there'd be no adding of more heavy plate, but I might play around with making areas that are now cloth, into thin armor or some other material. At this phase, making major geometry changes to the model is difficult due to the UV maps being pretty final and the fact that animation is already pretty much set.
Again, I cannot stress enough, I don't know what changes I experiment with will make it into the final, if at all, but I see merit in some of the feedback I'm seeing and I'd like to try some iteration. Some potential solutions I see are as follows. Feel free to agree, disagree, or add ideas/reference:
- I feel the general shapes are good. Placement of large forms is generally ok, so chances are the forms themselves wouldn't have to change too much.
- I lke the billowy upper arms, but the bracers, rather than silk, could be made to feel like armor wrist protection.
- I might play around with making her legs feel lightly armored rather than having a stocking feel to them. Closing the toe on the foot may help also. My gut also says that something might be goofy with the model’s foot size. I don’t remember Diana’s feet being that big =P
- I’m going to try to make the chest feel as though it has light armor under the drapery, and maybe add a more solid mid section. I am honestly very fond of the shape the fabric drape on her front makes in terms of in-game read. I don’t want to loose that. I think though there might be some merit to the thought that the exposed chest might be unnecessary and maybe even detracting. I want that shape there, but maybe I could make an elegant under-armor garment that covers the chest, with a similar color, but goes up to the neck.
There's some other random ideas I have but it's a lot of minutia.
Anyways, again. PBE content is often really work in progress. That is indeed the case here but there might be some additional takeaways from the feedback that’s hitting on things that wouldn't really change even if they were polished to a higher level. I’m going to do my best with the time we have to see what changes I can help facilitate inside the team. We have extremely talented artists, they do an amazing job, and overall I’m satisfied with the direction that this skin is going. I feel it’s a nice alternative feel for her, but I do see merit in what people are suggesting.
I would like to see the conversation move forward with suggestions, productive comments, actionable feedback and reference if people have images they feel are appropriate. I’ll do what I can to help make this feel better so long as the team feels it's the right direction.
I have to make sure any and all changes are cool with the Skins team. I cannot go making unilateral decisions, even if I think they’re the right thing to do. I have to work with my team and help them in whatever the way I can. It could be decided we have no time or resources to make changes. It might be something we have to live with, but I’d like to propose some changes to the skin to the team at large and facilitate some changes if we feel they’re adding value. Do i think the skin could ship today if it was feature complete? Yes, but I feel there's some opportunity here, so I'm going to see what I can do.
Please be patient, I have to make sure I go about everything the right way and that the team is aligned. I don't want to make assurances that I cannot back up, nor make promises I can't keep. If the team also feels there's opportunity, chances are we can do some fun stuff. I'll check in with them to see how they feel.
Again, thanks for the feedback, I hope I can help to improve things. We’ll see how it goes."
"Being a bit of a Diana fan myself I'm happy with the overall direction in the case of this particular skin, but as I mentioned, so long as the conversation is productive and actionable, I'm open to suggestions about potential changes."
As for the skins headdress, he commented:
"I personally like the head dress since I feel that she's already had one taken away once and could use a replacement. I think obscuring the brand is ok if there's some similar form or symbol there to take it's place. Not sure if the current head dress is doing that. I'll have to evaluate."
When asked about her legs and feet being different colors than the other parts of her skin, he replied:
"That's something i'm noticing having the concept and model side-by-side. There are some contrast/color/value discrepancies. Some of this is intentional "balancing" in that we're making a color and value hierarchy in order to help things read better from top down. However, it's a tricky balance. We might be able to tweak some things here."
As for her face being a little off, he commented:
"At the moment, I think that face is ripped directly from the base and had some tweaks done. I'll see what can be done and if it will add value."
"As for her hair, I'm liking where it's generally going. I think the reversal from the white is appropriate for this particular skin. I'm certainly open to suggestions though."
When asked about her lack of armor in this particular skin, he replied:
"Yeah, that's one thing I'm very weary of. That's why.. sort of a blessing in disguise.. that the changes I'm going to be playing with will only be on the texture side of things. At this point I'd be really sticking it to the 3D guys and animators if I made large shape changes or added thick armor. I'm going to make material swaps and see if thin armor feels right rather than thick chunky shapes. This skin is intended to be elegant, it shouldn't be too bulky as far as my opinion goes."He continued on this point, saying:
"I'm going to do a couple iterations. Going to try just a polish pass, then mess with some details and balancing, then see if adding different materials changes things for the good.
I think it does indeed fit into Lunar Revel. That's my gut. That's why I'd be comfortable shipping the thing today if it was finished to completion. However, I'm going to see if I can reconcile what I'm hearing here and what the goals for the skin are. Maybe a middle ground would be good, or maybe it'd be terrible. I'm going to try to find out!"
IronStylus closed out this chunk of Lunar Goddess Diana discussion by saying:
"Thanks for the discussion, guys. Hitting the sack now. I appreciate the feedback, ideas, and especially reference. Throw up more ideas if you've got them. Visual reference helps a ton. I'll keep tabs on the thread over the weekend and bring it to the team's attention on Monday.
He also replied to a few other questions during the Diana discussion, such as thoughts on a Quinn VU and what happened to the leaked "Lunar Karma" skin.
When asked if there were any plans to alter Quinn's visuals, IronStylus commented:
"No TU or VU is scheduled for Quinn. Nor will one be in the foreseeable future."He continued:
"Quinn might be a side project for me in the future, but she's simply just not on the radar. We have some really pressing priorities.
I like the ideas you're suggesting about the armor. I think they're doable."
When asked about the "Lunar Karma" skin that was leaked into the shop a while back, he commented:
"If I remember correctly.. and I don't know that I am.. I think it was scrapped for being below our quality standards for some reason. Not sure why and I'm definitely not an authority on that so take it with a grain of salt."
Follow up on OCE 3.15 MaintenanceIn response to the announcement that OCE servers will be getting the 3.15 patch a few days late on December 18th, Riot Natural20 stepped in to explain the situation in more detail:
I'm Riot Natural20 and I lead the Release Team at Riot. We are the ones responsible for getting you the new patches. I want to provide some info on why you are not getting the 3.15 patch at the same time as other regions.
When we schedule the time to deploy a new patch, the main thing we consider is how to impact the fewest players possible with the downtime. We consult with the NOC, who has all the numbers, to set that time. For OC, that time of day is 6am Sydney time. We also have to consider what day of the week we will be deploying. We avoid deploying on the weekend, except for emergency issues, as the weekend is when a huge percentage of players are very active.
Those are the basics. Now to talk about 3.15 in particular.
We had some issues getting 3.15 ready to go out, which meant we had to reevaluate the deploy schedule, and were not able to start deploying until Thursday afternoon PST. If we stayed with our standard cadence that would mean taking the shard down and deploying OC at 6am on Saturday. At Riot we always try to do what is best for the player, and in this case that meant choosing to make sure that everyone in OC could reliably play over the weekend over delivering Yasuo. Once that decision was made, we looked at all the other variables and found that 12/18 was the next best deploy date.
We don't want to have to make that choice. We want to be able to give you all the things, all the time, without interrupting your ability to play. We are just not able to do that right now.
There are many people we consult with at Riot when making these decisions, yet ultimately the wring-able neck in this decision is mine. Accept my apology for not communicating this more clearly from the outset. This decision was made before we discovered the Skarner and Yasuo issues, though ToxicHawk did not have this context, and I also apologize to him for not getting him the full info sooner so he could keep you informed.
Team Builder Now On PBEEarly this morning , Team Builder queues were enabled on the PBE for a brief window of testing! As this post mentions, the team is trying to have them up between 6 AM and 4 PM PST on Thurs - Sunday each week.
Here's Lyte with some information on this testing cycle, when players can expect to be able to test Team Builder out, and what features have been added or are still in developement for this build:
Team Builder is coming to the PBE today! Starting Saturday, Dec 14th, we're going to try to run Team Builder tests every Thursday to Sunday. Select PBE testers will be able to try out this new feature and give us invaluable feedback on its design and functionality.
We got a lot of great feedback on Team Builder in the first two PBE tests, and we have been hard at work incorporating some of your feedback. Team Builder is a complete re-design of Champion Select, which means it’s extremely complicated and there are a lot of changes. One of our goals is to keep collaborating with players on this feature, and collect feedback throughout the development process.
What does this mean for players?
As players, you’ll be able to help us test the feature extremely early in the process, and work directly with developers to evolve the feature over time.
PBE is a smaller server, so queue times will be longer, and gameplay experiences will not represent a Live server. Matches might be very unbalanced as players of all skill levels will appear in the same match, but our focus is on testing the feature and collecting your feedback.
The following additions have been made for this PBE test:
The following bugs have been fixed for this PBE test:
- Skin Selection now works, but skin preferences won’t be saved from game-to-game
- Role selection is currently limited to "Any Role"
- Limited Match Found Ceremony (you’ll hear a gong!)
- Added tool-tips for several buttons in the feature
- Lots of polish!
The following features are still turned off or incomplete for this PBE test:
- Summoner Spell selections are now saved
- Summoner Icons will now show up in the loading screen
- Team Builder games will now be available for Spectator Mode
- Reduced the volume of sound effects
- Added missing buttons in the Champion Select window
- You now receive a notification when a group disbands
- Team Builder animations can now be disabled in the client
How do I get involved and help make Team Builder awesome?
- Friend Invites from Friends List
- Dynamic Matchmaking Adjustments
- Estimated Wait Times
- Anti-Abuse System
We'll be using this thread to collect player feedback and answer questions about this PBE test. We're looking for more general feedback since we'll be on PBE longer than the previous tests. For example, where are all the places we can add polish to the feature, and are there any points in the feature that seems confusing to you.
RiotDoctahWayne has a thread in the Bugs Forum that will be collecting information on bugs you’ve found in Team Builder.
To participate in future beta testing for League of Legends, apply for beta access here.