Red Post Collection: Riot Stashu's latest plans for Cassiopeia and Lyte on Chat Restrictions & Player Behavior Systems

Posted on at 5:07 AM by Moobeat
This morning's red post collection features Riot Stashu with his latest plans for Cassiopeia and Lyte discussing all things player behavior - chat restrictions, upcoming projects, and more!
Continue reading for more information!

Stashu's Latest Plans for Cassiopeia

Riot Stashu has once again slithered on to the boards to give an update on his follow up to Cassiopeia's rework, this time including an updated changelist that should hit the PBE soon!
"Hey guys, there's been a lot of great discussion in My Thread and Canastus's Thread. Keyword here being discussion -- more than ever before, all of us felt that the others were listening, and I was really happy about that. Sadly, I didn't sticky my own thread originally -.-, but luckily Canastus's thread has been hot enough to stay on the front page. But yeah, I'll be stickying this one >.> 
Anyway! Over the course of this update, I've learned a ton, and I'd like to talk briefly about all of that and how it will inform me moving forward.
  • First and foremost, communication surrounding Cassiopeia's update was just poor all around. It was late, rather weak, and felt pretty closed. Naturally, it's unrealistic for me to respond to every post or to take everyone's advice, but when I come across as just ignoring community feedback or completely misunderstanding general consensus, I'm clearly doing something wrong. I think we finally started to get to a good state of communication in the latter half of Canastus's thread, and I'll be sure to try to maintain this as we move forward. Thanks to everyone who's stuck around through the communication nightmare and helped us get to this point.
  • In working towards out goals, we marginalized a lot of core Cassiopeia players' favorites things about the champion. The problems we wanted to solve were/still are real problems, but the solutions we ultimately settled on had really heavy costs. The recent changes have been aimed at getting back a lot of the core Cassiopeia feeling while finding alternate solutions to the stated problems or refining/sharpening the ones we went with. We're confident that we're making big strides here, but there's still a lot of room to improve to this end, and that's really how I want to focus future discussions. 
And that's the main stuff. With that in mind, let's look at the full list of PBE changes, with some updates that'll hit soon: 
  • Aspect of the Serpent
  • No longer stacks on poisoned unit kill or on Twin Fang casts on enemy champions.
  • Now, stacks once every 6 seconds (10 times per minute) and for every second that an enemy champion is poisoned.
  • Stack breakpoints adjusted to 100 / 250 / 500. Overall, these are hit sooner than the old 75/200/400 based on the new mechanics, but are definitely still up for discussion.
  • Noxious Blast
  • Delay changed to actually function as intended (previously hitting between 0.25 and 0.5s).
  • Now that the delay is actually reliable, 0.35s was too reliable (undodgeable).Slightly increasing this to 0.4.
  • Movement speed buff changed to a flat 25% (from 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 / 30%).
  • Noxious blast damage to 70 / 105 / 140 / 175 / 210 (from 75 / 115 / 155 / 195 / 235).
  • Mana cost changed to 45 / 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 (from 40 / 45 / 50 / 55 / 60 ).
  • The above mana/damage changes are to account for the spell just being much better overall, thanks to reliability increases and increased damage from E. We want the buffs to outweigh these slight nerfs for an overall boost in Q bower, but not as severely as they were.
  • Miasma
  • No change.
  • Twin Fang
  • Mana cost changed to 35 / 45 / 55 / 65 / 75 (from 30 / 45 / 60 / 75 / 90)
  • Costs were just a bit high mid game before, but probably a little bit low for a 1 point spell. Will be monitoring this.
  • Earlier, we removed the mana refund mechanic. This proved to be a poor decision, so we're gonna put that back :)
  • Now adds a debuff on the target which amplifies further poison damage by 25% for 5 seconds, stacks up to 2 times (50%).
  • Question: About the current CD, 0.5 s reset on cast might too low, as it makes Cass's kite pattern very choppy. I'd love to hear what people would think about skimming off CD power here to smooth this out, and loading it into the DoT amp aspect, or something else. Thanks!
  • Petrifying Gaze
  • No change. 
All of this is super Beta, but I think we're getting a lot of good traction on some of these changes. So yeah, let's keep the discussion going. Thanks all! 
[The pbe changes won't all be in tomorrow, but you can expect them within a few days. Sorry! Also, signing off for a bit, be back tomorrow]"

 Lyte on Chat Restrictions, Behavior Systems, and Future Plans

In a lengthy reddit thread regarding Chat Restrictions, Lyte dove into a discussion on all things player behavior - Chat Restrictions, upcoming system improvements, and more!

He started off by explaining how Chat Restrictions work to a summoner who just got out of a large streak of chat restrictions only to find himself with hundreds more:
"Not here to smite per se.

Usually there's a couple scenarios when a player goes through a chat restriction:

1) If the chat restrictions increase afterwards, it means the player was verbally abusive or toxic during their chat restrictions.

2) If the chat restrictions decrease afterwards, it means the player was on the path to reform, but hadn't shown enough consistency for us to completely remove the restriction.

3) If the chat restrictions stop, it means the player showed enough neutral or positive behaviors that all penalties are removed.

Right now, it's also possible to receive 500+ chat restrictions, which is basically the system's way of saying "We don't think you are on a path to reform and have received numerous chances," and this is effectively a permanent chat restriction. This is a temporary solution until the Tribunal returns, and chat restrictions again just become a penalty type in the Tribunal.

There's also a known issue where sometimes a player gets a chat restriction for gameplay toxicity, when they should have gotten a ban. This is rare but can happen, and is also fixed when the Tribunal returns."

As for the typical frequency of Chat Restrictions and repeat offenders, Lyte commented:
"For about 75% of players, they get 1 chat restriction and never get a 2nd. 
For those with 500+ chat restrictions, it's just a temporary band-aid until the new Tribunal system comes out. Players who have 500+ chat restrictions most likely aren't interested in reform, so "capping" their potential toxicity is better game bans which force them to make new accounts and have unfiltered toxicity against new players."
He continued, elaborating on chat restrictions vs game bans:
"Players who receive chat restrictions right now tend to show toxicity that is low to moderate in severity. For example, a lot of "fuck you bitch" or "you're a useless fuck." They might use these types of words consistently in their games so they get chat restrictions to try to curb this. The way to look at it is, high frequency of low to moderate toxicity earns a chat restriction. 
Players who get the 14-day escalated game bans right now usually show more excessive behaviors such as consistent verbal abuse, racism or sexism. So, regardless of frequency, some types of toxicity are not acceptable in any contexts and are so severe we'd prefer these players take their time elsewhere."
He continued, replying to a question regarding chat restrictions and the lose of ranked rewards:
"Just having chat restrictions doesn't necessarily mean you cannot get ranked rewards. Only players who are the most abusive will be restricted from rewards. 
However, if you keep being neutral/positive and improve your behaviors until the end of the season, you'll improve your chances of keeping rewards."
When asked for additional information on how toxic behaviors can be handled or managed, Lyte explained:
"The key to penalties is understanding that different players respond to different things. We need to find out what "matters" to a player to truly do something to stop the behavior. 
So, Ranked Restrictions is super interesting because a lot of Ranked players want to play Ranked and earn rewards. If they lose that ability when they are toxic, they'll opt to stop being toxic to keep doing what they love. 
Refusal to cooperate with teammates is a tough one because it's so subjective. If a player doesn't listen to you or agree with you, is that a refusal to cooperate? For subjective behaviors like these we need to develop more advanced methods to improve our accuracy identifying the behaviors. We're actually testing a system right now that tries to identify intentional leavers... and it's catching quite a few players every week."
As for inaccurate or false reports and how they play into chat restrictions, Lyte noted:
"Frivolous reports have actually never impacted chat restrictions. Frivolous reports have no "value" in the system.
If you are continuously getting chat restrictions, someone at Riot has reviewed the account at some point, or multiple systems have verified the restriction."
In response to a suggestion to limit the amount reports players can submit based on time, Lyte noted:
"I think you meant limiting reports per week/month? 
Some other games do this, but it puts players in a really awkward spot where they have to juggle reports. For example, "That was an awful experience... but do I use my report now? What if a player in the next game does something terrible too?" Now the player has no reports and no methods to combat the situation which is a terrible experience and makes players feel helpless. 
What we've done instead is implement really sophisticated systems to "validate" reports. So, if a player is reporting frivolously, their reports simply lose "value" over time. Many of the players who troll report simply have their reports ignored by all behavioral systems. This solves the problem of troll reporting without removing the ability for the average player to combat toxicity."

Lyte also touched on toxic players who believe nothing will happen to them since the Tribunal is down:
"There are 2 systems in the background running while Tribunal is down, so every report is processed and punishments are handed out. This is why you generally see massive waves of game bans and chat restrictions go out on a daily basis. 
Players who claim "shit won't happen" are just bluffing to try to get players to stop reporting."

Lyte also jumped into a discussion on the other player behavior systems and what we can expect going forward:

When asked if the updated Tribunal is expected to be up for the next season, Lyte commented:
"Yes, there's now a few teams working on player behavior related features instead of one. It took some time spinning up new teams and new Rioters, but we're rolling now. 
In fact, we have a new LeaverBuster system that aggressively identifies leavers/afks and is significantly more strict on leaving/afking in Ranked that we'll talk about soon. I know some team members were looking for some PBE volunteers for testing out the new system, so PBE players should keep their eyes peeled."
He continued:
"The new LeaverBuster system has some lenience built in. So, if there's truly an emergency, leaving once in awhile is not going to result in a harsh penalty. 
However, DCs do still result in a miserable experience for 4-9 other players in the game. If a player has a bug/crash problem, they should fix it before queuing up for more games; otherwise, they will still get a penalty."

Lyte continued to elaborated on LeaverBuster and mentioning that the updated Tribunal allows voting on positive cases which can bestow "little prizes" to players:
"Overall, the system is much more efficient than before. Each vote gives us more "value," and we can determine a verdict on cases with fewer votes. 
One of the big features I'm super excited about is the ability for players to review positive cases as well. Players who show positive behaviors will have cases built in the Tribunal and if the community believes they are positive, they'll get a little prize."
When asked to elaborate on the rewards for good behavior and positive reinforcement, Lyte explained:
"TL DR: We're going to try a mix of different rewards and punishments in the upcoming year. It'll be important to get feedback from players about what rewards they care about the most, and why they care about it.

Incoming rant about "positive reinforcement" :)

The interesting thing about prizes and "positive reinforcement" is that it's often misunderstood by people.
For example, I'll often hear "why are we focused on punishment? Let's just do positive reinforcement instead!" This is a flawed argument because the overall approach to player behavior in games isn't about punishment OR reward. It's both.
There are many, many types of players in League. Most players are neutral to positive, and a few players are toxic. However, every type of player is motivated by different things. Some players love skins. Some player love rank (social status). Some players love competition. Some players love teamwork. Different players have different motivations, and respond to different punishments and rewards.

There are some players out there that are toxic and ONLY care about competition. So, if we gave out skins to behave, these players wouldn't care and Ranked behaviors might be exactly the same. However, the same players love social status, so if we remove their ability to earn loading borders and social status-bumping icons they now care and change their behaviors.

To truly improve player behavior across League of Legends, we need to incorporate a mix of approaches. We need rewards and positive reinforcement here and there to nudge neutral players to strive to be more positive, and to give positive players recognition for their contributions. But, we also need punishment for players unwilling to change, or who don't care about "rewards.""
As for when we might expect more rewards for players who have never been punished by any of the behavioral systems, Lyte commented:
"There's no excuse, we have some plans that you'll hear about later in the year. 
We've always believed that "good" players in League should get some recognition for their contributions to the community."

He continued, mentioning work they are doing on Suggested Players and sharing what else they are focusing on:
"We're wrapping up some polish with the new Suggested Players feature and what we call Team Builder Normals. 
Our focus right now is on stuff like Tribunal, LeaverBuster, Honor, and exploring what a Ranked Team Builder could be."

When asked about the current status of Team Builder and if there are any other plans for it in the immediate future, Lyte commented:
"Ah, we actually have been working on this along with a few other "quality of life" changes to Team Builder. 
For example, Team Builder will remember your last played spec (Champ, Position and Role) and then auto-populate them for you in your next game. Like you mentioned, we'll also be prioritizing almost full groups but I don't believe that feature made it into next patch."

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