More about 5/17 PBE Changes: Annie, Vi, and Lissandra

Posted on at 10:13 PM by Moobeat
If you missed it earlier, the PBE received ( and then had it rolled back ) a ton of changes earlier today. A lot of them have sparked quite a bit of controversy and many players have rushed to the forums with questions about them. Some of these questions and answers have already been edited in to the 5/17 PBE post, but than making that thread even messier than it already is, I've elected to split things into another post.
Continue reading for several posts clearing up and giving context to the recent/planned PBE changes for Annie, Lissandra, and Vi.

For reference, please check out the 5/17 PBE post as a reference for the changes that most of these posts are talking about. If you do not wish to do this, I've also included a short TL;DR version of the changes being discussed.


( For reference, the TL;DR version of the Lissandra changes is Ring of Frost: Cooldown reduced + Damage reduced  and Frozen Tomb : Slow increased per level and damage reduced at later levels. )

First up is Meddler is discussing the slated changes for Lissandra.
"Our goal with the Lissandra changes currently in testing was to shift Lissandra's power a little bit more towards utility (lower W CD, stronger slow at higher levels on ult) and away from burst (base damage at higher ranks on W and ult). These changes aren't intended to be a nerf and shouldn't impact her laning phase much at all, bar the lower W CD. We suspect they may actually may be a slight buff, though it's that realignment of power towards desired strengths that's the key thing here.

In terms of overall performance Lissandra's also still pretty new so we're still assessing her overall state as well, particularly given some people started playing her in her first week, others when she dropped to 6300 IP and yet more of course during her current free week. This means quite a wide range of experience on her from individual players, resulting in a fair bit of variation in performance still."
Responding to a summoner asking "why make changes if you are still assessing her power level", Meddler explained:
"Still assessing doesn't necessarily mean 'do nothing'. We're confident in these changes in terms of the overall direction that's right for the character (control mage). Power level however is something it'll take a bit longer to get a really clear read on, so we may well make additional power focused changes (raw strength, rather than champion direction) at a later point if needed (whether buffs or nerfs)."
He also elaborated on these changes being a buff rather than a nerf to laning phase.
"The changes to her ultimate only kick in at levels 11+. The W I feel's pretty clearly stronger while at rank 1. You'll be getting less damage per point at higher ranks (though on a lower CD) granted, that won't occur until level 8 if you're maxing it 2nd or level 14 if maxing it third though. Unless you're seeing extremely long laning phases I'd be surprised to see these changes have much effect on Lissandra's laning phase as a result."


( For reference, the TL;DR version of the Annie PBE change is the tool tip for Summoner Tibbers no longer read that Tibber's gained stats per rank of the ability.  )

Next up up is Solcrush confirming that Annie changes were just tool tip changes and reiterated what is perhaps one of the most important aspects of reading PBE coverage: The information largely comes from datamining tools tips and, thus, commonly misses things.

"Please realize that the PBE changes are datamined from just the tooltips.

The tooltip for the stats just got moved to the spell level up tooltip. There is also another siginificant buff we are testing that the datamining missed."


( For reference the TL;DR version of the Vi changes is her Assault and Battery ( R ) tool tip now reads that it ignores "knockups and knockbacks" rather than all crowd control.

Here is FeralPony with some insight on the tentative Vi changes:
"The change currently on PBE is obviously still in testing. However I need to jump in here to clarify that even with this change Vi's ultimate is still unstoppable it simply doesn't discard the CC, however she will feel the effects of the CC when the charge ends. Knockbacks and Knockups however since they are displacing the charging champion's movement are completely ignored to allow the Ultimate to complete. 
What does this mean in game?
If Vi uses her ultimate on Lux who lands a light binding while charging. Vi will finish the charge and smash Lux into the ground. Then, Vi will be rooted for the remainder of the duration of the binding.

The other ultimates with similar mechanics such as Malphite also have this change, however totally blocking CC effects was not directly referenced in tooltips outside of Vi's before which is why you are only seeing a change in hers.

Champions effected by this change iirc are Malphite, Hecarim, J4, Nocturne, and Vi. The goal here is to add a little bit more counterplay to these abilities while still keeping them "unstoppable". We want these abilities to be uninterruptable and they will, however we also don't feel that them completely nullifying other champions crowd control effects and cooldowns even after the charge is compete is fair. We felt this was a nice and logical compromise, but we'll see how testing goes.

I'll work on the tooltip wording to try and make this a bit more clear. I don't feel this will ultimately be a bit power hit but if we feel it is - or becomes one we'll adjust the individual champions as needed."

To clarify, Phreak laid it out as:


"Knock-back and knock-up are discarded. Stun/Slow/Silence/Blind/Root/Suppression are temporarily ignored."

Phreak then gave an example situation, just to make sure everyone is on the same page.
"And just to make sure we're all clear here: 
A 1.5 second stun hits you right as you ult as Vi. Let's say it takes .9 seconds to reach the target and remove the "Can't be CC'd status." There will only be a .6 second stun left after you're done puncherizing.

(I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty certain this is how it works)"


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