About the price of Mecha Kha'Zix and Morello on the Future of LoL

Posted on at 3:46 AM by Moobeat
I'm glad to see you've taken time away from playing our newest champion to return to good ole' Surrender at 20. As a reward, here are a handful of the latest and most interesting red posts!
Continue reading for an explanation of why Mecha Kha'Zix carries such a steep price point and several posts by Morello concerning some initiatives coming into play for S3 and the future of League of Legends.
In case you didn't notice it in the announcement earlier, Mecha Kha'Zix is now available at an uncommonly high 1350 RP price point. This unusual price has upset many summoners and caused quite the confusion about why exactly this skin merits an extra 375 RP.Hippalus defended the increased price point by saying:
"This was a special case where the launch skin is arguably legendary due to the evolving model and other features. We decided that rather than price it as legendary, we would launch it at 1350 RP, and that we would keep the regular launch bundle price of 1462 so that players who want the skin could get the champion for almost free.

This will not be a trend for launch skins or skins in general, but as we produce more legendary quality skins, we may bring the 1350 RP price back on occasion.

We are also trying something new with Sultan Tryndamere today by launching him on sale for 487. Again, this will not be the norm, but I am interested in your continued feedback so we can decide which new ideas make sense and which should be sent to the recycle bin."
One summoner spoke to his fear that thus new price point will be a permanent addition and would be the standard price for new skins,  to which Hippalus replied:
"Good theory but wrong. That's no more accurate than expecting that if you buy Sultan Trynd that all future skins will come out at 487.

Most skins for the forseeable future, including Pentakill Olaf next week, will come out at 975. Most legendaries will continue to come out at 1820.

However you are somewhat correct in that your feedback (and purchases) will help us decide if 1350 and 487 launches should be considered in the future for skins that meet a certain threshold for quality and effort. If you don't think these either of these skins are worth the price to you, don't buy them and feel free to let us know why. If you think they are, we'd love to know that too."
Morello spoke a little bit about his thoughts on Nasus & Renekton and how the currently measure up. He says:
"I've spoken about Nasus before, and sadly, I don't think we're likely to do much on him. To me, the design's "fun" is what also holds him back. To make Nasus good, Siphoning Strike simply can't infinitely scale. When I asked about, many passionate Nasus players preferred not-in-tournaments Nasus but with his most signature mechanic in tact.

Renekton is honestly fine, and I don't understand the feelings of marginalization on him. He's used sometimes in serious play (but not always) and only really suffers from lack of AD Caster itemization - something that will probably be much better in the Season 3 item overhaul."
Even though it's nothing new, notice at the end Morello mentions the S3 item overhaul. When probed for further information, he replied with:
"Nothing until it's closer - we're in mad science mode on it right now. Lots will change"
Again, no new information but boy does stuff like this get me antsy for the upcoming season.


Following the same theme as the previous post, Morello put up a MASSIVE response to a thread about the future of League of Legends and where Riot is headed. He mentions his feelings on several key points such as eSports, new maps, better balance, champion reworks, and more. Here it is in its entirety:
"Hey there, good post that poses some really valid questions.

I can't tell you everything you want to know in detail in this post and I'm sorry for that. However, we talk about this a lot internally. While there's always room to improve on Champions, I think we're putting the right amount of care and resources into it to release cool stuff regularly - the question is non-Champion releases.

First of all, let's talk about a few of the features we think are important and are talking about already:

* Player Behavior (Honor, Tribunal improvements, etc). This is one of our biggest non-gameplay things to tackle, and Lyte's team works specifically and only on these aspects. This also includes looking at things like Matchmaking, how to group players, etc - no additional details yet, but Lyte will let you know as soon as we can While not always as instantly "sexy" as gameplay features on the immediate glance, I think most people agree this is an important area to focus on.

* eSports I think it goes without mention how seriously we're treating this aspect of League. Frankly, we think eSports needs to be supported in a way I've never seen of beforehand - it's what it needs and deserves, and more importantly, what a lot of players want to have. Our plans here will be unveiled more and more as we progress, but I think we're in good shape here.

"But, Morello!", you may ask, "These are cool, but they don't enhance the gameplay. I want to talk about gameplay features!"

This is, unfortunately, where I need to be tight-lipped on details. I will talk in more high-level stuff. Directionally, here's a couple of bullets;

New Maps: Xypherous and I talk philosophically where we want to spend our efforts on this front in the following thread: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2449093. The major takeaway is we discuss the damage of multiple 5v5 SR-style maps, but like new game modes like Dominion, TT or ARAM. Support for these existing maps is our next priority here. For design rationale on why we're doing this, that thread has a lot of information.

The desire for all-new mechanics: We agree that some of this is needed, but I like the clip we do new and familiar. I explain why familiar mechanics don't tell the whole story of uniqueness in this thread (get past my mid-playtest short posts!) http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...44270#29444270

This has relation to champions, but also can apply to other mechanics in the game too.

More reworks and support for the live game: Agreed. We formed a whole team dedicated to reworks, but we're figuring out some details on how to increase this pace (it's harder than new champs in a lot of ways).

The other aspect of this is systems changes - things like Guinsoo's new jungle of Season 2. We've got a LOT to talk about before Season 3 on this front (and between seasons is the right time to do big changes) including the new items overhaul Xypherous is heading up. We think there's a lot of nuts and bolts style improvements to return a bit of the experimentation and "new game smell" without making the game totally alien to people.

Better balance:Balance is not something I consider a major problem today, but could always use improvement. I have a whole team of Live Design that hyper-focuses on this and knows the game better than I do, and 99.9% of people reading this Balance, objectively by any reasonable metric, is pretty good. My philosophy on balance is well-summed up in the Kha'Zix/Rengar passive thread as an example: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...10108#29610108

Directionally, we want League to be around a long time. We want long-time players, meaning we need to keep strategies and the game fresh. Champions and Balance are good tools here, but you're right that there are many more - some of those up our sleeves at the moment. It's easy to see Champions and Balance because they happen so frequently, they warp time perception around other things. Did you know we released Dominion about a year ago? ARAM is pretty new to League too. When we release content so often, it makes everything else seem like an eternity (even if it's not actually "too long").

Riot is about one thing from a game standpoint; Long-engagement, serious PC games for PC game players. No churning out things to maximize short-term and burn long-term, no product abandonment, etc. We're all PC gamers, and want to make those kinds of games - the ones we'd always wanted a company to make."
 In addition to the above, he continued to comment on the thread, briefly mentioning plans to update Twisted Treeline and that a Lore project is in the works that will "make the JoJ seem like a joke comparatively".

What do you guys think about or hope for in this looming overhaul to items or any of the other initiatives that we'll hopefully see roll out sometime soon? Season 3 seems like it's literally going to be a game changer!

92 comments

  1. money money money must bu funneh

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    1. First!! and yes money is just .. money

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    2. In the rich man's world...

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    3. definetely some chinese fellows postin

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    4. Anyone want a banana?

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    5. They never expect the banana huehuehue...

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  2. The price is good because this skin is much better then this ugly Pulsefire Gayreal for ridiculous 3150 RP

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    1. How mature :P On the other hand, PFE is amazing, and was worth the price it was sold at. Don't forget it was at half price when it came out, which was obviously the best time to buy it.

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    2. The price is stupid. PFE is indeed amazing and when it was on sale it was about 300 RP more expensive than this robotic mosquito.

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    3. Mecha Kha'Zix says Beep Boop nuff said.

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    4. Good good... Give into your hatred, let it flow through you!

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    5. I agree 100% Pulsefire is basically Justin Bieber in a tight suit, Gay.

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    6. I agree... hell, I'd understand a skin like that for 3150 RP, but PFE? Absolute shit that one.

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    7. PFE is over-rated. Expensive for nothing and on a gay champ as well.

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    8. PFE doesn't suck. He's just gay. And fugly. An suck. Ops.

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  3. "Balance is not something I consider a major problem today" hahahahahahahahaha TELL ME MORE BRO.

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    1. Balance is mostly in pretty good spot, especially when compared to DoTA2 "viable" tournament rooster, which is 1/3rd of the pool.

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    2. Dota2 is deep in balance hell. X beats X no matter what they build or so.

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    3. I don't think Crystal Maiden can beat Anti-Mage

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    4. ^ What he said. Dota has been out for years! it's been balanced and balanced and changed throughout every year too. So dont be saying its not. You're probably just one of those kids who plays LoL and complains about Dota being a copy.
      And no, I'm not a Dota fanboy, I play LoL more than Dota. but Dota is more balanced and better overall as a game.

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    5. Besides a few useless Champs (Syndra, Karma, Sejuani etc.) the game is pretty good balanced, especially if you think about the huge number of champs available. Of course a raging scrub that just lost due to his own lack of skill like Anon 1 will not agree.

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    6. Lol, ppl saying Karma is useless are as dumb as ppl saying Dota isn't paper-scisors and stuff. The same with Sejuani. They are really good, but dont fit meta. I play AP Karma mid: Triple kills by shield, 600hp heal for whole team every 8secs. U still find her useless?

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    7. Lol is better at all: lol is clear and understandable for every one, rotation helps new players (less to know; in dota u have to know all chars at the beggining), CC are long as hell so are more anti-fun than in lol AND dota has MUCH more leavers, cuz u can participe in multiple parties and will not pay for leaving if sb else had left. Additionaly, Dota is more % based, so luk is more important here than in LoL ;)
      But i play both, like both.
      Lol has some serious problems with supports and items (w8 a moment).
      Plz don't blame me for this comment - i'm playing Both mobas for long time so i know what im talking about.
      PS. I like skins more than this... ***** :D

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    8. Anon 8:07, please note he said Dota 2, as in the new one that is still less then a year old. Not the old version that basically started it all. So shut up and read before you talk you smart ass.

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    9. Dota is not intended as being balanced in the same way lol was made. Instead you got a "scisors, rock, paper" system there.

      This has pros and cons.

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    10. Dota is balanced around having fun and creative mechanics without being labeled as 'anti-fun' or 'burden of knowledge' bullcr@p. The players find a way around things and Icefrog lets the game settle down instead of nerf, nerf, nerf, buff, nerf every few weeks.

      @ Anonymous 9:29 - you are clueless. Dota 2 IS Dota 1. Falleth is just spouting crap without any evidence. Just go to dota-academy dot com and you can see that the last major tournament (The International) saw 73% of the hero pool picked. That's hardly anywhere near 1/3.

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    11. Meepo that is all.

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    12. "Falleth is just spouting crap without any evidence."

      Except playing both DoTA and DoTA2 recently for quite a while.

      "Dota is balanced around having fun"

      Doesn't really seem so from your post, mr. "pro". Also, nice imaginary 73% number, that has no confirmation.

      Not to mention, prophet sure is balanced.

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    13. Prophet is pretty easy to deal with if you're willing to work with team.
      Or carry a tp scroll.
      And you didnt even respond to the fact that he countered your initial comment with actual facts. You are spouting crap.

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  4. Well I think new items will change much and its good they are focusing it.
    Balance is not really that much of an issue. And hes totaly right about the releasing aspect. I think they kinda raising players to want new stuff every week and this is kinda ridiculous so.

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    1. We need more ap-jungle, ad-caster and on-hit, am i right?

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  5. So big thread but no new info....I respect Riot hard work and commitment but we need more hard facts rather then dancing around the words...

    What kept me playing this game is Lore stuff, when Riot canceled it, for me game took big step back... "a Lore project is in the works that will "make the JoJ seem like a joke comparatively"."
    I so hope for this...

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  6. just for the money, they let people trough the high skin price think "Oh, when I buy the bundle I save a lot of RP !" ... with other words, just a bait to let people want to make a "good deal" even if some didnt even wanted the skin

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    1. Skin bundles are always a good deal, IF YOU WANT THE SKIN. If you don't want the skin then it's just retarded to buy the bundle in the first place, so it's a "good deal" no matter the price. Just so happens this bundle turns out to be a better deal than others since the skin itself cost damn near the same as the bundle alone.

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    2. If you dont want it, dont buy it lol

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    3. ^ dis. Quit the fucking QQ, you dont have to pay ANYTHING to play this game 24/7

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  7. " a Lore project is in the works that will "make the JoJ seem like a joke comparatively".

    I hope to God this is true

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    1. Sounds to me like somebody has a novel on the way. How about you, Moobeat?

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    2. I hope so too, the lore was a pretty big thing that got me attracted to LoL compared to other MOBA games

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  8. 1) Reveal Void Support.
    2) In thread "Is this Kass daughter?" say YES.
    3) Associate her with new lore type.
    4) Make her save some other prisoner.
    5) Make her marry him.
    6) Continue that lore.
    7) Publish AI voices with first being her voice.
    8) Make $$$ by this plan.

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    Replies
    1. If anyone's getting married in LoL it's going to be Kat and Garen.

      Besides, we all know Malzahar is going to have Kass' daughter for his bride just to piss Kassadin off.

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    2. This is awesome pls do this (however I dont really get the reason point 7 :P )

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    3. Imagine Annie or Yorick shouting PENTAAAAKILLL. I'd pay for this ^^

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    4. She should run away, in my opinion, i forgot to type it.
      ***2.5) Make her run away :)

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  9. This ain't about money, freeloaders...

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  10. We need new AD Caster type Carry something like ezreal

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  11. Twisted treeline update <3333

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  12. But most of people dont know that the Mecha zkins has sounds and visual improvements that helps you a bit on the gameplay while playing..

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    Replies
    1. It also helps the opponent, when your passive is on your opponent can see a warning sign.

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  13. You get the champ for free when you buy bundle so... that's a nice thing for some people. Free 6300 IP champ with amazing skin? Yes please.

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  14. i was considering Mecha Kha'zix... at this price, i can wait till a 50% off

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    1. Dude but that doesnt make sense.

      1. It will never go on sale. If you dont realize it yet NONE of the legit skins for legit champions go on sale they are always the less "wanted" and basic ones.

      2. Why wouldnt you buy the bundle for 1462 RP. So in theory you would wait for the skin to 50% off which would be around 700 RP. and if you were considering buying it in the first place unless you were buying the regular skin with IP it doesnt make much sense to buy it seperate.

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    2. Yea I agree with above poster^^^

      And not trying to be a smart ass, but... If you have a job (and if you dont then it doesnt apply to you) hold off on buying cigarettes, weed, and fast food and eat at home and save your cig/weed so they will last longer and put that money towards the skin. Its only like 5 extra dollars. You dont have to be rich to afford this skin you just gotta manage your $$.

      Just my thoughts :)

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    3. I agree with both above posters. Plus it is highly unlikely for "legendary" skin to go on sale.

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  15. I want Mecha Kha'z badly, but I'm poor.

    Actually applies to several skins for champs I have and want to have.

    :(

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    1. Go play PBE :) I have all the champs and ALMOST a skin for each and every one of them.

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    2. Its not the same.... not even close...

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    3. ^ agree with poster above

      PBE is meant for bugtesting and balancing, not some alternative to the main servers.

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    4. I pretty much only play on pbe. The only time it sucks is when they release new content. Everyone has to play with it. I have played a little over 300 games. It isn't that bad in my opinion.

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  16. Very interesting post...

    As far as the new champ bundle I really like it. The skin is worth buying the bundle.

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  17. Replay system, please? Even realm of the titans, which never went out of CB, had one(well to be honest, it was a translated chinese version of the game, but still). Many Mobas have replay systems, even rise of immortals, im not even sure about them with the game being relaunched.

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    1. Yeah, not sure why they haven't been able to do it yet. I recall RJCombo saying something like "There's too much data to consider with a replay system, so it's gonna be far off" (obviously, I'm majorly paraphrasing here) and yet, the LOLReplay team managed to record replays via the new Spectator mode, utilizing the rewind/fast forward and everything.

      I mean, if a bunch of guys with no money can do it, I really don't see why Riot hasn't yet.

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    2. thing is, its a replay system. It records stuff. Altough riot has always delivered awesome stuff, beyond our expectations, i really dont see what you can add to it. Record game, watch, extract data from it,maybe import to computer/youtube. I dont know, automatically compile your kills to make a sort of frag movie?

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  18. one question:

    kazin normal price 975
    skin normal price 1350??? its right?

    and bundle (kazix + skin) in only 1460?

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  19. btw @Moobeat; there is so many abbreviations in your post, and I don't know all of them. For example: JoJ, AMA, SR-style etc. are som I'm not sure of.
    So if you sometimes didnt use the abbreviations, and had them like "All-random-all-mid (ARAM) as an example. :)

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    1. Y don't u just type it where "the bounded, bounded red" were?

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    2. Alright, I'll keep that in mind!

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  20. That comment about Renekton that morello made bugs me. I have been playing Renek ever since he came out and as of today he feels very much outclassed. Rengar can put out as much damage as Reneks full combo in 2 Stabs(one reg and one 5 stack). I dont know morello i think you need to take another look at our fav crock.

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    1. igree, i play since release too, and, renek only get nerf, and nerf, is hard today play to him, since nerf helth in cul of meat

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    2. I feel the same all about Nasus. His comment really disappointed me as there are ways to help Nasus in his current state. And I am afraid that Season 3 changes might hurt him more than helping him.

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  21. Would be nice to have some ENFO Team Survival style map... loved that map... Too bad nothing like that is on the horizon...

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    1. Oh man, I nostalgia'd hard. Some new co-op stuff would be neat, although scaling could be an issie. If I remember correctly Enfos skills had some 15 or so skill levels. Some of this would be alleviated with skills scaling with AP items, but the balance effort may make it more effort than its worth.

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    2. although scaling could be an issue*

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  22. You guys do know its a free to play game right? Your not required to buy the merchandise they put out on the game. If you don't like the price then don't buy it. Riot has to make money somehow. They gave us this amazing game with all types of champs. They're not greedy, they're being fair. That bundle is pretty much the best option to get the skin. I buy skins because I like them, I support Riot and they're cool.
    -Demon of the Six

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  23. Nice post! Check out my lol blog, http://gotgamer.com/

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    Replies
    1. You really should at least credit the original writer when you shamelessly copy and paste another websites article on your own.

      Showcasing s@20 on your own website out of respect with permission = Good
      Copy and pasting moonbeat's post word for word = bad

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    2. Funniest thing is at the end when he added "Read more at surrender at 20" ... what else to read when he copied the whole damn thing already? So stupid.

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  24. Anyone knows why PBE is down? something new?

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  25. focus on tuning the old maps and no new ones? wtf... It's getting so tired playing on the same old SR map over and over. They don't even need to make them THAT different, just change up some of the jungle paths and different types of jungle monsters. You could make a half dozen layouts in a day.

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    1. The main issue with releasing new maps is that maps take just as much balance as the champions do, if not moreso. For a while there was (and may still be) arguments that one of the sides in LoL (Blue, I think) had a competitive advantage in tourneys, and thats with a map thats mirrored (mostly) on both sides. There's a long complained problem with DotA 2's map that Dire has the advantage because Roshan (Their Nashor) is literally inside Dire's territory, making attemps on Roshan easier for Dire to both attempt and defend. New maps are coming, but they want to make sure that one side doesn't have an unfair advantage compared to the other.

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  26. I picked up The boundle as fast it came, 100% worth it! Its an epic skin, nothing to argue about?

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  27. Just want to come in quickly to say-

    Kha'zix is fricking awesome fun to play, and his skin is absolute top notch. Seriously, those targets are awesome fun as they pop up on screen- really pull you into the character.

    The bar has been lifted.

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  28. "we would keep the regular launch bundle price of 1462 so that players who want the skin could get the champion for almost free."

    Unless of course, they unlocked the Champion with IP... but hey, whose interested in convincing arguments.

    "almost legendary because lolution"
    (looks at Primal Udyr, Annie and Malz skins with re-skinned pets and particles, 975)

    Nope.

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    1. """we would keep the regular launch bundle price of 1462 so that players who want the skin could get the champion for almost free."
      Unless of course, they unlocked the Champion with IP... but hey, whose interested in convincing arguments.""
      Unless you buy Tryndamere with ip and want him legendary for 975...This is legendary skin - it has EVERYTHING changed. Deal with it, if it wouldn't be release skin my guess? It would be 1,8k RP for sure.

      "almost legendary because lolution"
      (looks at Primal Udyr, Annie and Malz skins with re-skinned pets and particles, 975)

      I made a post somewhere on EUEN forum: curren legendary skin are not legendary anymore due to overall quality of riot skins. Currently only PFE and Mecha Kha Zix are legendaries for more than price because they got something unique: evolution of model. (besides having EVERYTHING else changed, mecha got even cool targeter:D )

      p.s. RIOT! WHY ON EARTH HE IS EXCLUDED FROM BATTLECAST SQUAD! HE FITS PERFECTLY!

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  29. there needs to be changes to older champ models like malzahar or nidalee, which just dont go with the art that the game has now. i know a lot of people that play league but this game isnt going to last long by just adding champs. it needs maps, it needs more game modes. and it doesnt hurt to try new things. riot games has creative minds.I would really like for them to add new maps for the game to stay fresh. make the same three lanes but make those lanes not only in one single path. i really liked what dota 2 has done and i hope league of legends can do better because it really is a simple game at its surface but has a lot of depth. hope riot hears me out!!!

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