Red Post Collection: Discussion on Ashe Update, Morgana Shield bug in 5.8, SSW Rengar feedback, and more

Posted on at 3:38 PM by Moobeat
This afternoon's red post collection includes a cool batch of discussion on Ashe's champion update, a heads up fixes in the works for the patch 5.8 Morgana Shield and Bard Alt+W cast bugs, the skins team noting they are looking into SSW Rengar changes, and more!
Continue reading for more information!

Table of Contents

Unintended Morgana Shield Change in 5.8, fix in works

[UPDATE]: Pwyff just tweeted out : "We're planning to hotfix some Xerath janky-casting changes + Morgana's black shield CC bug within the next few days, just as an FYI~"

In the recent 5.8 patch, an unintended change for Morgana's spell shield was added - the change made it so the CC effects of a hostile ability to go through if the ability is strong enough to totally eliminate the shield where as the intended behavior is the shield will break but the CC effect will still be cancelled.

Riot Riscx has confirmed the unintended change and noted team is working on a fix.
"We're working on putting out a fix for this. Was not intended."
Feral Pony also added:
"This was an unintended bug, not a ninja balance change or feature. We have dudes working on a fix, and will get it out as quickly as we can."
Scarizard also popped in to add:
"Followed up - often when these sorts of things happen they're code changes that affect spells in an unintended fashion - and this one is no different. We're talking about the best way to fix it. I'll respond with an update when we have a plan."
He continued:
"I've edited my original post to better reflect what's happening - when i said 'we're talking about how to get a fix out now', i meant we're talking now about the fix. There's no guarantee that this is going to be fixed ASAP (hotfix), but i'm not the person that decides that."
As for why this issue wasn't addressed on the PBE, Riscx noted:
"Hi Purzzle, I'm one of the QA Managers on League - thanks for reporting this on PBE (and also reporting that we missed it). We have a small team that is supposed to read every PBE post and attempt to verify the reported bugs. They are human though, and sometimes miss things or test incorrectly. I will be looking into this today to ask that team why your report was not investigated properly. PBE is super important to us, so its pretty disappointing when an obvious major issue like this slips by. We will have this Morgana issue fixed as soon as possible."

Bard Alt+W Cast Bug

Speaking of bugs, also introduced a bug where Bard can no longer use the combination of Alt + W to self cast W's Shrine on himself.

According to Pwyff, a fix is in the works though!
"This might have to do with our cleanup of spellcasts and targeting. I'll ask the dude who worked on it. 
[edit] Unintended bug, working on a fix - has to do with the script cleanup we did on HUD / hotkey targeting."

Team Looking at SSW Rengar Feedback

Following his PBE debut yesterday, KateyKhaos has tweeted out that the team has heard feedback that SSW Rengar looks a bit too much like Sweeper Alistar and are looking into potential changes:
"We noticed feedback about SSW Rengar, and we're looking into potential texture changes to differentiate him from Sweeper Alistar!"
Over on  on the bugs and feedback thread for the skin set, Nurse Flan added:
"Adding a cape, removing hair or adding hoods / armor adds features to the skin that would increase the price =/ The uniforms are based on what SSW wore to finals, and his fur color was based on Dandy's golden hair color during Worlds when he played Rengar :) 
What we can and are working on atm is shifting the hue for his fur to make it feel less like Sweeper Alistar, though it was uncontrollable that SSW had the same color scheme as the soccer/football line :)

Thanks for the feedback though!"

On SSW Talon Concept & Future Skins

Kindlejack, a concept artist, also commented on the SSW Talon skin , what influenced his design, and the player hope for a "big" Talon skin vs a 750 RP scope skin:
"It was definitely a challenge for me, being new to the team I got a lot of help figuring out how to render the material with cool shadows and warm highlights and a lot of colour in there while still looking crisp and white - it's actually pretty easy to let it get muddy or grey and we definitely wanted these to be sharp and clean. 
On the general feedback - we did try to make this years championship skins feel little more like an actual LoL team dressed in real-world uniforms instead of the abstract logo-inspired designs of past years. Call it an experiment but I think these are the best yet as they combine real-world clothing with some fantasised style. For Talon I was aware that players had been waiting on a new skin for a long time, also that as a 750 skin it would always disappoint players who are waiting for him to finally get a 'big' skin. I decided to make Dade's General Jacket a big part of the design due to the profound significance of him giving it to Pawn during the awards ceremony. Originally I tried some designs that changed his appearance more, particularly his cloak, but was unable to make it work with his base rig (which doesn't get changed for low scope skins). Ultimately I focused on three things: congruity in the skin line, an awesome looking jacket/cloak, pushing 750 scope with new models on his abilities. There's also a bit of Assassin's Creed and Gatchaman in there. 
Naturally I can't make any promises, but his rig is so limiting that I think next time we will want to change as much as we can and deliver on that 'big' Talon skin that players have been waiting for. Also because this was a special skin for the world champions it is not necessarily 'it' for the foreseeable future of Talon (for example Thresh got a skin quite recently but Mata requested him)."

Phreak on 5.8 Yasuo  Changes

In a heated reddit thread discussing the 5.8 changes to Yasuo's flow generations and shield, Phreak dashed in to share his own thoughts.

For reference, these are the two changes Yasuo received in 5.8
Passive - Way of the Wanderer
  • SHIELD STRENGTH - 60 - 470 ⇒ 100 - 510
  • FLOW CHARGE RATE - 100% at every level ⇒ 78/89/100% effectiveness (at levels 1/7/13)
 Here's Phreak's first response, arguing his side for the changes and increased flow generation as the total numbers have shifted:
"As someone who didn't work on him, enjoys playing him, and just generally likes talking about stuff: 
Shield Generation - Remember that Flow is gained as a % of max shield. While % flow generation is down early game, total shield gained per step, per dash, etc. is heavily buffed.
He has 66% more max shield strength at level 1, meaning that even with the 22% nerf, he's gaining 30% more Flow per step in 5.8 at level 1. I'm going to guess that total amount of damage shielded in early lane is going to be higher. This 30% number DOES go down, so we'll pick the worst levels for this: 6 and 12, right before the flow generation amps up. 
At level 6, 90 -> 130, 78% effectiveness, 12.7% more Flow per step.
At level 12, 185 -> 225, 89% effectiveness, 8% more flow per step. 
So at ALL points of the game, he's generating MORE Flow per step than in 5.7 
This also affects his roams and his ultimate without downside. Whenever he roams, he's virtually guaranteed to have a full Flow bar, so every gank he goes for and almost every jungle invade he's a part of will have the benefit of a bigger shield. Every time he ults he's also granted a full Flow bar, so again Yasuo is buffed by this change. 
Yes, Yasuo will have a full Flow bar for less of the game. However, that Flow bar is always much stronger and is in fact BUFFED in terms of total shield per unit traveled."
He continued:
"I think you'll find you'll be pleasantly surprised by choosing a more all-in playstyle, dashing in and FORCING your opponent to respect full shield power. Yasuo has never been good at trying to deal with poke. That's never been his forte. Honestly, it'd be really silly if it were. You have a zero-cost, sub-one-second cooldown dash plus extremely high auto-attack expected damage output. Go make plays utilizing those tools. 
If you look at this through the lens of "getting poked sucks" then of course it feels worse. But if you look at this through the lens of "getting poked sucks but I'm good at all-inning people" it looks a bit better. 
As always, champions will continue to be balanced over time. I think Yasuo naturally sits at a low win rate because he has some very obvious core synergies and weaknesses (knock up teams on his side, bruisers on the enemy team). The average team comp doesn't have tons of knockups (rise of Gragas helps tho) while big bruisers are very common right now. If Yasuo ever was 50%, he'd probably be ludicrously overpowered. That's unfortunately the price you pay for champions with really big hooks in them. But that's just my opinion."
As for adapting playstyles to balance changes, Phreak commented:
Depends how you view it. You nerf his sustained laning, but you significantly buff his all-in at early levels. 
If you can jump on your opponent and come out on top, they have to take a big risk in poking your shield off.
Generally speaking, if you try to play a champion the exact same way without thinking about the changes, you're going to be worse at almost every champion after they get changed. 
I saw people say that Cinderhulk would be a nerf because people can't just immediately pick up Ninja Tabi - They now have to decide between getting Tenacity thru Merc Treads or getting the aforementioned durability bump from Tabi. And you know, "I'm a tank, it doesn't matter how much damage I deal." 
If you want to look at ANYTHING through a super-narrow lense, you can make any champion look useless, nerfed, etc."

Discussion on Ashe Champion Update

With Ashe's recently announced champion update now on the PBE for testing, Riot Repertoir and a few others have been scouring the forums answering questions on the Frost Archer's updated kit.

Before we jump in here, make sure you check out Riot Repertoir's PBE feedback thread for an overview of his current iteration of the Ashe changes (including the forumla for her passive's scaling)!

In response to comments on it being strange that Ashe no longer crits, Riot Repertoir offered up an alternative way to look at the new passive ability:
"It's not that she never crits now. It's more that she always crits, but for less."
When asked what Ashe's new passive slow % are and how the damage of her max stack Q is calculated, Repertoir noted:
"Passive slow I believe is: 
5/11/17/23/29/35% at levels 1/4/7/10/13/16

Damage calculation for max stack Q: 
.23/.24/.25/.26/.27 Total AD per arrow for a total of 1.15/1.20/1.25/1.30/1.35 Total AD per basic attack"
He continued, commenting on the idea of Ashe having a passive permaslow:
"Permaslow is probably not something we'd support on a new champion, but it's Ashe's thing, so we kept it around. For those that would say "it was also Skarner's thing," the fact that he builds tanky and just sits on you is what makes that so different. When Ashe gets jumped on, she will still just die most often."

When asked if characters who are immune to disables or slows (such as Master Yi and Olaf under effect so of their R) will also be immune to Ashe's bonus damage against slowed targets, he noted:
"Currently, yes, these characters could not be crit by Ashe."
When asked if the tier 5 "Frenzy" mastery in the offensive tree will work off of the "mini crits" on her passive, Riot Velocity noted:
"Her auto attacks on targets that are affected by her passive are still considered 'crits', which means that the Frenzy mastery would work on them."
As for if each shot of her max stack Q empowered attacks will also get bonus damage from her passive, he noted:
"Yes, each shot in the Ranger's Focus will crit if her enemy has her passive applied onto them. If they don't already have her passive on them then the first shot from Ranger's Focus will apply the passive and all subsequent shots will crit."
As for the duration of Q's stacks, he noted:
"4 seconds on the Focus stacks, and 4 seconds on the Q buff duration.

So... not like Annie. The spell is intended to have a payout for building it in combat and not just pressing it right away. That said, you can build it on minions, and it is built by just applying your passive, so Volley and ECA can stack it up multiple targets at a time."
He continued:
"Currently, the buff duration on Q is intentionally low so that it will fall off between waves. The payout on cashing in 5 stacks gets to be pretty high because she can't just have it up whenever she wants it."

When asked if the Q stacks decay all at once or one at a him, he noted:
"Nope, all at once. They may be able to decay one at a time if it's necessary though. Good suggestion. I'll think about that"

When asked how her max stack Q attacks apply on-hit effects, Repertoir explained:
"Passive is just a slow added to her attacks.

The first Q missile will apply on-hits like BotRK; the next 4 on the attack won't.

Runaan's fires 2 bolts for every single attack during a Focus-empowered Q. It feels pretty cool."
He continued:
"She will only apply BotRK once an attack. BC she currently applies on all 5 attacks. Hurricane she currently shoots an additional 2 arrows for each attack, so 10 total Hurricane arrows per attack."

As for if these max stack Q attacks will stack The Black Cleaver's debuff, he noted:
"Focus-empowered Q attacks are 5 arrows per attack. Each arrow applies Black Cleaver, so yeah, she can put 5 stacks of Black Cleaver on per AA while it is active."

As for how her max stack Q will interact with Doran's ShieldRepertoir noted:
"Damage from the first of the 5 arrows will be affected by all Doran's Shield, Block, and Unyielding.

Damage from the remaining 4 will likely only be affected by Unyielding."
As for how she interacts with Statikk Shiv, he explained:
"She is guaranteed to Crit Statikk Shiv whenever her passive crits (whenever she has slowed the target already), but she will do so at her modified passive Critical Damage rate."
He continued:
"She is guaranteed to Crit Statikk Shiv whenever her passive crits (whenever she has slowed the target already), but she will do so at her modified passive Critical Damage rate."

He also elaborated on how Ashe's max stack Q interacts with Runaan's Hurricane:
"One thing worth noting here is that the bolts that Runaan's is firing while Ashe Q is up don't all trigger on-hit effects like BotRK. With Focus-Q up, Ashe fires 5 projectiles per basic attack without Runaan's. Only the first of these 5 triggers on-hit effects. With Runaan's up, she fires up to an additional 10 Runaan's bolts per basic attack, in waves of 2. The first wave of 2 applies on-hit effects like BotRK. The others will not. That said, she will apply her passive her passive with all of them. The Runaan's bolts will have about one-fifth the damage of normal Runaan's bolts, as there are up to 5 times as many coming out. Finally, none of the bolts from Runaan's will crit (even via Ashe's passive), as is the case for every other champion. 
Hope this helps!"

When asked about his thoughts on Runaan's Hurricane being a core item on her, he noted:
"I'll be looking for feedback as to whether Runaan's is actually good on her. Historically, it's been a bit of a gimmick build on most characters (Kalista being the main exception), but I made sure it worked and looked awesome for this just in case.

If it turns out Runaan's actually seems like the most effective build path for the character, especially for lower level players (who tend to need the most help from Rec Items), then I'd consider changing her rec list."
and how her max stack Q interacts with Lulu's Pix:
"Lulu's Pix will only work on the first of the Flurry attacks unless I special case it."
He continued, explaining how Q interacts with structures:
"Her Q works on towers and inhibs, but Focus cannot be built on structures, only maintained. For instance, if she has 4 Focus stacks and attacks a turret, the 4 stacks will be refreshed, but she won't get the 5th."

With Ashe's updated E now being global range, Repertoir replied to a comment asking if they had thought of having it instead start non-global and scale up by rank five:
"Yeah we've thought about it, but having it be global with a strong cooldown incentive per rankup seemed like a better route to go. It's totally cool if Hawkshot is maxed last every time, as far as I'm concerned."

When asked how her passive's bonus damage and scaling will stack up to her dps from building crit, he explained:
"Her effective dps when building crit is unchanged. Although she won't crit up front, keep in mind she has a steroid on her Q spell now. Her burst is likely going to be lower up front, and I think that's okay, since up the up front burst on her Live passive seems more like a coincidence than part of her identity."

When asked if this change to Ashe's passive has something to do with a larger plan to change how critical strikes function, Meddler commented:
"We do not have any plans at present to remove Crit or change how it fundamentally works for the game as a whole. 
Giving different champions different ways of interacting with it as a stat is something we're interested in exploring further though. That might mean things like a champion who creates a shield for themselves when they crit instead of dealing extra damage, individual champions like Ashe that give up crits entirely for other bonuses, champions with extra crit chance and a CD on how often they personally can crit etc."

When asked if this update will include any updates to Ashe's visual effects, Repertoir explained:
"Adding some better effects to Ashe's outdated stuff would indeed be cool, but unfortunately, it's not going to be possible for this update. Ashe actually wasn't really a planned project at all, but when a small amount of Champion Update bandwidth presented itself, we hopped on the opportunity to provide a short and sweet touch-up on Ashe. Unfortunately, as I mentioned, the amount of bandwidth was indeed very small, so we won't be able to do a full suite of new effects."
Again, be sure to check out our PBE coverage and Riot Repertoir's PBE feedback thread for more info!

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