More on Karma from Guinsoo's Twitter

Posted on at 6:48 PM by Moobeat
Guinsoo has put up more information, on his twitter, about the long awaited update to Karma's kit.
Continue reading to catch up on what he had to say about this work in progress version of Karma's reworked kit.

( Remember that this stuff is tentative and, quite frankly, has been going on for quite some time now. Some of these reference abilities changed in previous iterations of the Karma update )

Here are the set of tweets along with my assumptions of what they mean. Enjoy!

First up is Soul Shield, which has had it's CC ( probably a slow on shield ) reduced and it's Mantra version apparently now has a stun, which prior to this probably increased in duration with level.
 Moving on to Spirit Bond, it seems like the Mantra effect adds a root ( instead of a slow ) and confers some sort of bonus health on either Karma or her allies.
Sticking with Spirit Bond, which he mentions a few changes for, most noticeably the bit about "armor" granted. Seems her E will now grant bonus armor while tethered!
Responding to someone worried that Karma no longer has her level one ult, Guinsoo replied:
Speaking of mantra, he also mentioned it's cooldown has been greatly increased. This sort of goes with his previous statement that they aimed to make mantra'd spells feel more ultimate-y.

90 comments

  1. Been waiting for this forever..

    ReplyDelete
  2. Finally the Babysitter gets a better kit!

    ReplyDelete
  3. It sounds like a really awesome rework in the making.

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  4. I wonder if this means she'll be reworked very soon.

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  5. Am I the only one to notice that Mantra has FIVE levels???

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  6. FOUR levels, it's just like Jayce's R, you begin with it, and level it up at 6/11/16

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Also like Elise's R, but no one seems to realise that it also levels at 6/11/16.

      Delete
  7. I'm starting to feel negative vibes from this rework. Let's hope it actually turns out good.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Same, I hope they don't ruin her. She was my first main and I still love her, using her when my team won't rage. I really hope she still feels like the same old Karma to me. That mantra cooldown is making my rage go up though...

      Delete
    2. He said she will feel the same. I already miss 600 AoE heal and dmg...

      Delete
  8. After seeing this rework, I may not play Karma ever again. With the increased cooldown on her ultimate, you're preventing Karma players to spam the burst component on her soul shield. If this rework actually succeeds, then Karma would be unsuitable for AP mid and will be relegated to the support role, just like Soraka. I just hope that they don't fuck up Karma's Heavenly Wave because that's her only burst after the rework.

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    Replies
    1. She was originally designed to be a support, the AP mid was just a fluke. I for one, look forward to having another support in the bot lane comps. I also have seen one AP Karma ever in my entire league career and I have been playing for two and a half years.

      Delete
    2. They said they plan to keep her ability to AP mid and Support with the rework...So just wait for it first.

      Delete
    3. AP mid Karma a "fluke"?? Are you serious?

      The supports when played as AP mids are stronger and have more utility than several common AP picks. AP Soraka mid, ult that changes teamfights, strong heal, consistent damage with Q and a silence that will wreck your opponent in the laning phase, even LeBlanc, Kat, and Kassadin.

      AP Karma is really the best way to play her currently as support Karma as too high of mana costs and cant harrass nearly as well as other supports. Whoever is playing her as a support isn't utilizing her to her full potential. So it's stupid to say that she's a "fluke" played as an apc.

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  9. .............

    No more damage on E? Fantastic. Yep Riot, that's what was holding Karma back--her burst!

    No mention of Q and whether or not you will have to squander your now ONE mantra per TWO MINUTES to heal an ally.

    W... not too sure on this but seeing as Guinsoo last said you won't be able to target enemies with it, it's probably going to be useless in a solo lane.

    Mantra. WHY? You've ruined what Karma is, she should not have to wait TWO MINUTES to have another side to JUST ONE of her abilities. After reading this I felt like crying. Let's all give Akali and Corki and similar champions this same nerf because ammo-based ultimates are clearly OP! I'm praying that the released rework will not disappoint me as much as I think it will, but at this point I doubt it. RIP Karma

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If you looked at his tweet he didn't mention damage on all of them, just CC effects, so what you assume immediately that the skill don't do damage?
      Doesn't mean it's not mentioned, that it's not existent.

      He didn't mention them from his tweet could mean that the damage have not changed.

      Q is a great clutch heal, it saves life saying it's a waste of mantra is dumb. Not unless of course you were those idiots who wasted a mantra and used it on conjunction with Q when your lane partner's health is at 80%+

      Spirit Bond can be only cast on allies... wow, so that means Karma is the only champion to both damage and root the Champion she's supporting. Amazing.

      Your deduction from this tweets is superb.

      Delete
    2. Yes, he didn't mention damage. I can't imagine they'd put a stun (and presumably slow w/o mantra) and keep the damage, I feel like this and making W only on allies are going to solidify her into the support role. Which hey, wouldn't be bad, except for how they ruined mantra.

      From earlier tweets Guinsoo said "The thing Karma plays will miss most is targetting enemies with her beam", if you'd been following the rework at all you'd know that. I'm merely assuming this has remained the same.

      Q is a great clutch heal--provided you have a mantra to use it, currently. I would have preferred a mention of her Q, as the general belief (as the last thing mentioned was an additional knockback with mantra) is that her heal will be a permanent fixture on Q. There is no proof of this or anything to the contrary.

      And sure, Spirit Bond working on only allies is great, if in lane the enemies are stupid enough to let you run around them in a circle while you try to hit them with your tether--assuming riot has not rescinded on the "only on allies" change. I am merely going with all of the information that has been presented and assuming it is still the same at this point in development. And Spirit Bond deals damage and slows when it passes through enemies, good job deducing that it would damage and slow/root her ally, though. Have you ever even played Karma?

      In short my reaction was not based on merely these tweets, some of us actually followed the info provided throughout the year.

      Delete
    3. > I can't imagine they'd put a stun (and presumably slow w/o mantra) and keep the damage

      he hentioned that cd was increased

      Delete
    4. Ah yes, the previous tweets, if I remember correctly, Guinsoo said they were going back to square one and redoing everything before this batch of tweets.

      Delete
    5. Yeah, it seems they are completely scratching the old Karma in replacement of a much more CC compatible one.

      Seems like a weak trade imo.

      Delete
    6. @Snoopy

      Agreed. And even then, the cooldown on the new Mantra should be as low as Diana's. Seriously, just for an additional cc you have to expend a minute cooldown? Does Riot even know that champions like Taric and Sion have an auto stun on a significantly low cooldown? What about Syndra and her knockback? I'm not sure if Riot knows what they are doing with their old champion or not.

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  10. I hate to agree with all the naysayers, but I'm not liking where this looks to be going.

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  11. People are seriously crying about Guinsoo fixing this poop champion? I didn't know Karma hipsters were this retarded...

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    Replies
    1. Shut up, ok? Karma was great midder against melee midders and THE BEST late game support, having mantra every 8secs to heal and dmg for at least 600dmg, shield and dmg for about 700+, and slow/haste for all 10 champs, which prevents enemies from sticking (also dmges).


      But there's no boring champ by guinsoo, so i'll play her as new champ.

      Delete
    2. No arguments? Just Ad Hominem? Wow, lame.

      Well, to be honest, I didn't like Karma as she was. As a support, her mana costs were too high, and as a mage, her range was too short.
      Also the old tether (slow/haste) was worse than a lot of acceleration provided by other supports, and the damage was really hard to proc (unless you have a Olaf or Hecarim maybe?)

      But I also liked the possibility to have lvl 6 abilities, and that seemed to be changed too. We shall see.
      Never rant before seeing.

      Delete
    3. That's because all he deserves were ad hominem. Melee midders? Best late gme spport? Slow/Haste all 10 champions? There's only one place all that happens: At 5 elo.

      Delete
  12. I didn't even know solo lane Karma was a thing.

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    Replies
    1. It was. And actually with such a passive, and with such high mana costs, which require a very specific and expensive itemisation to be dealt with,
      how could it not be? She had to farm.

      Delete
    2. @ ^

      Very well said. Why play support Karma when you could play much better supports? Karma needs farm and AP items so she can be really strong mid-late game. 3-4 item Karma when played AP mid is VERY strong and has a ton of utility.

      Delete
  13. Poor Karma :(
    I don't like this rework at all...

    ReplyDelete
  14. don't like that huge CD on mantra she should have less CD so people can actually benefit from picking her over other supports if they want other play styles

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  15. Replies
    1. Because your karma was so viable and top pick before...moron.

      Delete
    2. wut? I have just won a game for being Karma top...

      Delete
    3. Karma is very viable. Like any other champion, she has a high skill curve that people aren't willing to learn. It's stupid to say she's not viable. Really stupid.

      Delete
  16. I've been playing Karma top for months and it worked very well... and now rework... I even bought a skin but now they kill her

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  17. So many people ready to assume the worst "OMG SHES DEAD USELESS QQQQQ"

    To me it sounds like all of her abilities now just have the OLD Mantra versions as their normal cast. The shield will do AoE dmg and slow, Mantra Shield will do AoE dmg and stun. That is a BUFF. Cast on the right ally that can stun an ENTIRE TEAM, that's why its not every 8 seconds any more! think it through.

    Think if her Q has the heal normally though it will get nerfed a bit.

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    Replies
    1. Maybe she will be better like Kazu.. said but sorry don't like changes.

      oh well will see...

      Delete
    2. The increased cooldown on Mantra alone is enough for the rework to recieve scrutiny.
      Guinsoo wouldn't allow soulshield to deal and absorb damage at the same time without Mantra. If that was the case, Karma would be extremely op. It's not like Katarina rework where killer instinct is added to each of her original ability,and replacing killer instinct with a brand new burst ability.

      Delete
    3. "every 8 seconds" is only if you have max level and 40% cdr. Riot SHOULD have made her mantra ultimate available as frequently as Diana's ultimate, 35,30,25 is A LOT more fitting.

      Delete
  18. the best way would be to let her stay the way she was, but sadly that wouldn't be possible. I love her, i tried her everywhere, top, mid ,bot, jungle (ok not carry ad)and still love her even if she is not a match against other champs. Because for once i found :

    first a champ who isn't so cheated as for assholees like akali, katarina, tryndamere, fuckinng darius.... and so much more. A champ i really like to play cause it demands challenge to play it, not only : let's go in teamfight i press right click mouse or left click(not sure anymore) and finished, done my job.

    Second : her spells , i think,but it's my opinion, the fact that she has no ulti is more powerful than any other noob ulti of all the other champs, and there i say all others. And of course her other spells are just awesome, like the shield, best shield ever created. the bond, just good idea. Ok not very easy to use, but so more fun than just i don't know, other skills.

    Remaking her i think is the biggest mistake you could do...
    It will be hard for me to play her again, maybe i won't, so disappointed i am.

    Thargor

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  19. Just add +1 Mantra after kill/assist, do that, please :-|

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  20. Even with the long cooldown, i bet there will be another "trigger" for her ult to come back, like, assists, kills, maybe something else...

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  21. Love how people havent even seen the rework and are already bitching... what is this. GD?

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  22. they didnt even revealed full rework and ppl still qqing

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  23. Maybe Mantra has like 20s duration?

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  24. But I like Karma the way she is. I am a great support with her as is. Removing her burst with her mantra shield removes a good damage output. The long mantra cool down will make her mantra abbilites take longer and less available during team fights. Spirtbond giving armor is a good plus but I really dont like this Karma rework at all. Keep Karma the way she is

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  25. Karma has for the most part always been an underrated support.
    I wouldn't say a rework would ruin her as so much change the dynamics of her play style. A rather scary thing for those afraid to learn.
    I'm a fan of the changes being made to her. I do agree with some people saying she is the most effective late game support. If your team comes out on top of any team fight it makes for very easy pushing with the ability to shield minions from turret damage as well as allies if needed. Along with the Damage done to enemies from a well placed mantra shield she provides protection & can heal friendlies on a % scale so fantastic for tanks. Karma is useful but is under utilized and misunderstood.

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    Replies
    1. If you're playing Karma as a support, you're doing it wrong. AP mid Karma is the BEST way to play her.

      Delete
  26. From what I read in these tweets it seems pretty much like this:
    Karma was destroyed.

    FAQ:

    Q: What made Karma so shit?
    A: People are retarded.

    Q: So you're saying that Karma could be a game turner, much like Blitzkrank? Preposterous!
    A: Yes. Karma had the ability to empower an ability ever 8 second. During laning phase slightly less, but still somewhat often. This mean that her slowing beam could be doubled in effect, thus making an attempted gank from your jungler far more likely to go the way you wanted it to. In addition she supported both ranged and mêlèe champions well, because of the way her shield and fan-of-silliness worked. On a mêlèe champion she could blow her shield up in the faces of her enemies, and then proceed to either slow them, speed-boost her champion, or dash out some damage, possibly healing. With a ranged hero she could focus on panic healing and empower her slowing, or movement increase, rather than blowing her shield up. The power lies in the options - she has two mantras, but three spells to empower. In each fight she has to choose - what do I want to do better this time? More slow? Damage boost, or a bit of healing?

    Q: So new Karma is shit?
    A: No idea, but I definitely don't like what I'm seeing. Why is this, you wonder?: Simple: New Karma has 110 second cooldown on her mantra. She is no longer adapting to each situation on the fly, like the old one, but is stuck with her decision once every one minute and fifty seconds. one minute. And fifty. Seconds.

    Q: Will you be pla..-
    A: No. Janna is just too strong as it is.

    Q: But we're talki..-
    A: JANNAAAAAA >:C

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  27. I'm just gonna stop playing support. My characters keep getting nerfed. At least Sona still has her spam heal. Now I can't 1v1 Olaf and escape. And holding lanes will be hard as shit bot lane. Try holding a lane against Caitlyn with a 2 fucking minute heal [oh I'm sorry 1 minute 50 second], and see how well that goes without a heal. Because standing behind the turret won't help you, range is too short.

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  28. Ok guess i cant solo Penta Kill with Karma anymore qq

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  29. Karma: Scanning feedback, it looks like some are concerned about her losing burst. She still has a 3 spell burst combo.

    https://twitter.com/RiotGuinsoo/status/269155071835652096

    Didn't see this posted anywhere yet.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Great, now Karma hipsters can stop QQ'ing now. ` 3`b

      Delete
    2. For real. >.> I love Karma but damn, people need to calm down.

      Delete
    3. Steve Feak ‏@RiotGuinsoo
      It's a bit late to be thinking about this, but I can't help but wonder if we could do something cooler for Karma's passive.

      https://twitter.com/RiotGuinsoo/status/271038479872430080

      >.>

      Delete
  30. for the love of god, stop the QQ'ing. Karma was only viable on paper and you know it. unless you has a team completely build up around her she would not be as viable as other mid / supports.
    Also mind stop comparing 110 sec cooldown with the 8 sec? because that is not true. The 8 sec cooldown is only lv18 and max cdr. lv18 max cdr her new cooldown is 30, not 110.
    Also why do you think they made it so high? maybe because she got 2 grand new cc's, and having them on 8 sec cooldown would be pretty op.
    She has an AoE knockback/heal/damage, AoE Speed-up/2 sec root/damage and an AoE stun in her shield. That imo seems op if she was just able to spam it all as she pleased.
    So stop the QQ and wait for the rework to happen, even on PBE alot can happen to her, so be patient.

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  31. imho, Karma is really underestimated support. My teammate plays her a lot, and I find it very easy lane with Karma and Ezreal or even Vayne, as the shield amount is ridiculous. Even with these changes, she can still be powerfull ally. All in all - do not underestimate any champions, as he might save your life, haha.

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  32. i love karma a lot atm myself, a few time ago i played my first ranked game with karma, me and the adc carried 3 more tards by ourselves D:

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  33. everyone on this page claims her matra has a 8 sec cd. however it has a base cd of 20 sec which leaves 12 sec with 40% cdr, imo. besides, if almost all her abilities have the mantrad effect as basic effect, why complain?

    ReplyDelete
  34. lemme tell you something i know and it's not just my opinion. Karma was made for meelee adcs. You can see that from her EXTREMELY low range of her autoattacks and also her skills (her shield does dmg around the target), is a meelee adc viable? nope. and it's also true that the whole team must know how to use her:P (she also didn't have any good cc, and nothing more other than her shield and small heal to help her carry in a fight)

    ReplyDelete
  35. ^^^ Karma is so viable. That shield in the new Meta is entirely for lane dominance and team fights. Its called learning to adapt to the new way of playing. She can literally Burst damage with the best! The mantra cool-down is stupid. Mantra was her main gig and now that it has a mega cool-down really takes away her uniqueness. Oh wait RIOT doesn't like unique anymore.

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  36. 10/5/11 karma vs rengar. She is so viable in so many ways. people just QQ over the sight of Karma in the que

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  37. I kept waning a stun if the enemy walked through the beam, not this bullcrap. That would be the perfect karma buff ever.

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  38. NOOOOOO DONT NERF HER. She is fine as she is, if you going to do anything, you should buff her, and leave her heal etc alone. I will really hate riot they nerf her.

    ReplyDelete
  39. My comment was removed? Why? :() I only asked "dont nerf karma, she is good as she is, i will hate riot they nerf her"

    ReplyDelete
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