More gems from the @Ezreal post.

Posted on at 6:13 AM by Moobeat
Ezreal is at it again! He recently put up some more responses to his massive "@Ezreal" thread, where he, as game designer, routinely answers questions from Summoners about all sorts of design and balanced related stuff.
Continue reading for a handful of the most interesting posts from Ezreal's last two mega responses!

Let's start off with some posts about cosmetic or theme related things, stop off in balance-ville, move from there to item balance, and round off the recap with a call back to the previous @Ezreal post!

Ever have the idea of having two characters controlled simultaneously as the same champion AND want to hear something cool about Ziggs? Ezreal's got you covered!


"Having two individual champions which either work together or swap between each other is not a new concept for us. In fact, the first iteration of Ziggs was actually called 'Mark and Franz', two yordles in a motor cycle + sidecar who swapped between who is shooting. It was pretty neat, but had a number of incredibly painful problems (which I will get to in a future post). We have also considered doing a 'set' of characters, either two different types of mages (Fire + Ice or Thunder + Water) or two different characters Bruce Banner + Hulk. Ultimately the twins fighting as one has a number of different versions, and I am sure we will find a way to do them some day...though nothing is planned as of now."

In terms of other champion themes, he had a bit to say about the possibility of a water based champion and tossed out his opinion of the classic orc hero, saying:
"We really want to make a water themed champion since it is a big missing point in our current champion line up. I am pretty sure we will hit a champion like this some time in the next year.

As for orcs...I am not sure if 'greenskins' really fit into our game's setting. It feels like we've already hit a few of the greenskin tropes in our other champion races"
Moving on to talking a bit about balance, Ezreal took a stab at where he feels Karma, Zilean, Lulu, and Leona, a few of the less popular supports, fall into the spectrum of viability.

"Hmmm, let me see if I can't answer all of those. Karma is slated for a remake, so we agree that she needs a serious fun pass. Zilean isn't really considered a bottom lane support as much as he is considered a mid mage. Lulu actually sees regular play and I think she is still pretty damn powerful. Finally, Leona is more for making a kill lane and a late game initiation, something that most other supports aren't able to accomplish."
Continuing on about balance, he also commented on the health of assassin type champions and why we don't see them more in competitive play.
"Assassins are not used in highly competitive play not because they are UP, but rather because it doesn't match their playstyles as much. Competetive players generally go with safer plays, with champions who can get their intended results reliably. Assassins simply have too much variance, and often die going after their main objective. So while assassins can go big and get 10/0, they can also easily not snowball and become weak at the end of the game. Furthermore, assassins prey on bad plays, and make their enemies pay for being out of position. Quite frankly tournament players make these play mistakes much less often than the average player, making assassins less viable in competitive play.

Additionally I would comment that there are a LOT of very good assassins out right now: Rengar, Kha'Zix, Kassadin, and Katarina "
In response to someone asking about Leona's potential as a jungler, Ezreal seemed accepting of the notion and agreeed to pass along the idea of having her be able to trigger her own passive on Neutral mobs.
"It's a solid idea that we should explore, I'll pass the idea of having it only impact neutral monsters to the Live Team."
By the Dawn, I'd be excited to see that! Who else would be delighted to see Leona rise up as a jungle tank?

Shifting gears to items balance, Ezreal very briefly touched on what Riot will be looking at with the upcoming item overhaul, tentatively slated for preseason 3.
"We are looking at increasing the viability for multiple different item builds rather than the simple If AD --> Buy Infinity Edge approach."
Continuing on about items, he also mentions his opinion on less popular items, such as the nearly troll exclusive Tiamat. He says,
"We want to buff / rework / remove items that we find to be a waste of space in the game. Quite frankly if no one ever buys a Tiamat then we should either find a way to make it into an awesome item or remove it. Because yes, items which aren't used are a waste or space and act as an additional barrier to entry when trying to learn the game."

Finally, if you recall from the previous S@20 post about the @Ezreal thread, Ezreal mentioned a particular champion that had been in development for years. It turns out that mystery champion is none other than Syndra!
"Syndra was actually the long development champion I was talking about."

83 comments

  1. Syndra was in development for a long time and she was still UP at launch? Good job Riot.

    Also, 4th.

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    1. If you remember, they nerfed her HARD after her initial appearance at Gamescom. Her damage was cut down and she lost a stun on her E.

      UP is generally healthier than OP

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    2. a lil cold mate considering no champion is perfect at launch.

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    3. You're a kid... You state something about Syndra like a normal person would, then you fuck it up by stating you're 4th... Nobody gives a shit you're 4th, but I just had to reply to let you know how ridiculous you look, frankly, I don't take yous seriously and I'm sure you're a low elo scrub that doesn't know what they're talking about.

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    4. @Celebi and what are you? Some kid douchebag looking at the picture? Please don't flame in this blog, even though I just did.

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    5. This topic is clearly going places.

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    6. Celebi, I do not know how elo has anything to do with saying 4th, I am also curious why you would get so struck by that guy saying "4th" it was a joke on how people always call 1st, why does it matter?

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    7. Considering some 13 year old added me after a game one time and then proceeded to hit 1700 elo in less than a year of adding him. I cannot say that being a kid or a vile human being (He's also a memespouting brony) has any affect on how well you play the game.

      Also, what he said is not what any normal person would say, you would have to be mentally deficient to believe that. It would make you a hypocrite.

      Anyone who complains about Riot releasing OP champs or even say they do it intentionally and then complains when they release UP champs is an idiot, you cannot have it both ways. They cannot get the balance anywhere near perfect without seeing it in live play. Sure, they have PBE but that's on a much smaller scale than the live servers.

      It is fine if you want to moan about them releasing champs in an OP state, I personally would not bother as it is not like they leave these champs OP for months. Just don't bitch about everything, especially not when it makes you look like a hypocrite.

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  2. SYNDRA?? THAT GIRL?? WITH THE CURRENTLY LOWEST WIN PREDICTION??

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    1. Lol,she can 1 b 1 almost anayone except Ahri and Gragas maybe... she is new and ppl didnt get feel for it.

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    2. Three weeks in. Yup. Win prediction means anything.

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    3. Her win % is EXCEPTIONALLY low, like 20-30% that is CRAZY low, usually when a champion is released considered weak they have like 40% win%

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    4. where can u see her Win prediction is there any site or sth ?

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    5. a site called LoLking google it not too hard to find

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    6. Cassi was also undervalued for months before she became the next new thing and had to be nerfed repeatedly. She played differently than other mages and people had to get used to her first.

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  3. Oh my! Syndra was in development for years? Yet she's still quite bad. Ouch.

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    1. Me again. I laugh at the fact that the first 3 posts are talking about Syndra and how bad she is :3

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    2. well she is bad its very sad they worked on her this long. her main problem is her super high mana costs. second problem is her cc is all conditional making her set up for any kind of fight which is just bad.

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    3. Syndra bad? HELL NO!!! She is one if the best mid champs! I allways win with her mid (: you just need to take some time to learn her.. She is not like other mid champs, she is very hard But When you have learned her, nothing can stopp you!

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    4. Impossible to have a discussion om balance without some hippy dippy everything is fine guy waltzing in and going, im the super god of playing champion X, just takes loads of skill wich none of you scrubs have.

      Please think about this if it were truely a lack of skill dont you think the super pros like say reginald would have picked her up? No high elo takeing syndra in their team lineups cecause they know shes too weak to be worth it.

      Best mage? Get a grip.

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    5. She's definitely not the best mage but personally i do well with her, as with basically every champ it depends on your playstyle and who you are going against NOT only the champ

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    6. syndra is bad casue her lategame sucks =/

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  4. I am sad that Syndra was the champion that took so long.

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  5. So all these years, and they produce Syndra? *facepalm*

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  6. Well played Riot... Wel l played.

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  7. Some real idiots posting here.

    Syndra introduced several new mechanics, which is why she was probably in development for so long. Her under or overpoweredness has nothing to do with development time, its likely that minion toss and sphere billiards took a lot of dev time and new technology to be developed.

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    Replies
    1. Agreed. Maximum jimmy rustlage going on in here.

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    2. Her mechanics were quite stupid, frankly even though she was fun to play her somewhat "unique" gameplay style was the reason why she's underpowered. Whats the point of having sphere billards if the spheres last no longer than 6 seconds? whats the point on having a stun that's almost impossible to land and an ult that takes at least 5 seconds to charge up to do damage and still deals less damage than ults such as Malz'

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    3. I think damage wise, she's pretty close of the balanced state, she would need a QoF changes like increasing the missile speed of W when it lands, increase the time an orb can stay on the field (cause right now it takes a lot of time to setup your orbs for your ulti), maybe increase the range of the knockback a bit, increase the range of the ulti definatly (it's so short)

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    4. if you cant hit the stun you should uninstall right now.

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    5. Damage wise they buffed her, which is awesome, it helps to bring her in line a bit.

      The problem is that with the newer champions in particular, as a prediction not a rule, is that with newer mechanics and more skillshots in general, it requires more 'comboing' and the ability to miss or dodge enemy abilities, rather than being zoned simply for being in a range, e.g annie.

      Syndra's case is extreme, to deal the same bursty goodness that previous mages could deal, isn't as easy anymore. To utilize her to her max requires you to set up before being able to maximise the supercoolkickassburty ultimate that AP's are known for. Previous AP's do have skillshots, but none of them quite require the same synergy that Syndra requires to maximize her damage.

      E.g, Brand has 2 skillshot, 2 smartshots. The way to combo for maximum damage, usually is with E to proc the bonus. It's a smartshot. So a stun requires a smartshot(E)/skillshot(Q).

      Syndra has 3 skillshots/ 1 smartshot (with the condition that you have other things to maximize damage). To proc a stun requires a Q and an E skillshot CONE. The cone in itself, means it takes greater skill and margin for error to land a proper stun.

      I guess my point being more skillshots, generally means a greater margin for error, meaning she gets punished for having more difficult mechanics. They're not bad, they just need to be taken into consideration when balancing her imo.

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    6. It's not like they worked on her WHOLE 3 years WITHOUT BREAK. There were also other things beside her -_-"

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  8. Leona is fine although i would love to see her worked to being viable as both a late-game initiate/kill lane support or a jungler. Because she is my favorite support champ, I can only hope hat the change doesn't hurt her late game too much.

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    Replies
    1. I hate the idea of "only works on jungle monsters" as a mechanic, i cant think of an ability that descriminates between jungle creeps and normal minnions.

      Would it be that bad if she could use her passive againts All minion types?

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    2. Were I to take a stab at it, I'd say the idea of it not working on normal minions would be to make it easier for her to soften them up to feed the target she's supporting without worrying about overkilling them and getting a bunch of last hits.

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    3. "Because she is my favorite support champ, I can only hope hat the change doesn't hurt her late game too much."

      how would a buff to her passive hurt her late game in any way shape or form? are you afraid they might nerf her as some kind of trade off or something?

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  9. If Leona could jungle then my two favorite junglers would hate each other! (Leona/Diana)

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    1. They should make a buff were if either leona or diana kill the other one first, gets a slight power boost :3

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    2. ^ seconded

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    3. They should make it where if Leona and Diana encounter each other alone in the jungle, the game stops and we go to a cutscene of them making out. Because nerdgasm and immaturity and such.

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  10. Isn't Leona picked in almost every single high elo ranked game?

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  11. He's the champion closest to the liquid water theme. I agree though, we need a champion who shoots water, pew pew, like the Pool Party Ziggs!

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  12. Leona is my favourite kill-lane support, I always play her with an AD with large burst such as Ezreal, Graves or Corki. And I've even wished to play her in other lanes because I easily grow bored of playing support, that being said, I'd LOVE to see her as a jungler! Her ganking skills would be great! :)

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  13. Wow. All those years of development and her lore was still terrible and shallow, and her character pathetic and weak.

    Not impressed.

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  14. you gotta pay the troll toll to get to, this boy's hole

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  15. I do love Tiamat D: Its 95% time troll but still it is funny :D

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  16. Holy shit so much time and it did not once occur to them that Syndra would be completely useless in the current meta? But yay at least we can throw creeps around, thats much better!
    But who cares lets release the next champions for big cashgrabs and forget Syndra ever existed, right Riot?

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  17. There is Fizz and Nautilus this far themed for Water

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  18. You guys are retarded, Syndra is a badass AP mid and I always rape with her.

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    Replies
    1. Thats because you fight beginner bots or noobs.

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  19. Hey! Let's all post the same thing over and over about Syndra! Lots of time, blah blah blah, underpowered, blah blah blah.

    Please shut up and quit posting the same thing that can be read between every 3 posts.

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  20. You can't seriously slay that Lulu and especially Leona are less popular supports.

    Leona is pretty much fotm now and tbh, she is op in lane.

    I tell you a less popular support champ, nerfed to the ground on Q, on W and on ult: Janna.

    Leona has two ults for one of Janna's for instance.

    Now, that's a really unpopular champ right now, Janna.

    Leona? Really? And they wanna buff her. Ok...

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    Replies
    1. No edit: say* not slay. Hue.

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    2. They just making her viable for jungle..

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    3. she is alredy viable as jungler, pisck armor and 5pots, im jungle her,, OP gangs after lvl 6,,,

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  21. Janna is ok, but Leona and Blitz make a great kill lane, that's why they are popular

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  22. Nautilus says hi.

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  23. In today's news: Underpowered once=Terrible forever. Examples include Syndra and Evelynn.

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  24. Uhm, I actually jungle with leona... yes, she's not that fast, and needs blue (once or twice max, then you dont really need it) and can get countered, but lets say a lane with blitzcrank/taric + graves/ezreal and a leona jungle, that will be just rape.
    And yeah, I dont think this comment will get attention, but just in case: I know it's not really viable on high elo, nor tourneys, but on solo q, where everybody can jungle, she's quite good if you know how to land your stuff.

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  25. ^^ happy titan of the depths is happy

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  26. Leona is able to activate the half additional damage herself if she's alone in x range - what u think about sth like this?

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  27. When they say water themed they mean like a hydromancer probably.

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  28. Go! Go! Goo Girl! :D

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  29. "In response to someone asking about Leona's potential as a jungler, Ezreal seemed accepting of the notion and agreeed to pass along the idea of having her be able to trigger her own passive on Neutral mobs."

    I already play Leona as a jungler and, to be honest, she is crazy-strong. Counter-jungling her doesn't really have a meaningful impact since she needs very little farm to do her job, in addition to buffs not really being necessary on her. Letting her trigger her own passive will only succeed in giving her quite a bit of extra DPS on big mobs(she honestly has no problems clearing wolves/wraiths and can gank lvl2 without sacrificing much), thereby letting her clear pretty damn fast. This is just my opinion though.

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  30. Gooby Pls! DONT OPEN: http://tnij.org/slcd

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  31. Fiora will be sad, if they will modify/remove tiamat.

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  32. Bring back Innervating Locket imo

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  33. So, I just noticed the title of this Article...

    Gems? Gems are truly outrageous. They are truly truly truly outrageous.

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  34. tf visual update on its way next patch! moobeat fast! to the fields of writing! :P :)

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  35. TIAMAT NOOOOOOOOO
    Fiora with bloodthirster and tiamat rocks! ;-;

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  36. LOL, The new TF dances gangnam style

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  37. They ment water mage, the only reason hey didnt do it yet is because their current engine cant handle fluid dynamics.

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